Production Order Group Viewing 2018

[Mytran]

But the Commander has been on a hundred campaigns. That makes it sound like a large empire. How do you have a hundred campaigns all in your own solar system? Did they have to go on multiple campaigns for each planet in their solar system?

Neutral Zone separates planets Romulus and Remus from the rest of the galaxy. No indication those planets are in same star system. Earth outposts on asteroids. Are they just floating in space? In orbit? Earth and allies fought against the Romulans (and allies?) Maybe Remus was an ally? Kinda like Austria to Germany?

The neutral zone may just be on the "Earth" side of the Romulan star system. At an extreme orbit, it can take centuries for the watchtower asteroids to move around the central star (and they doubtless have thrusters to maintain their positions). The other side of the Romulan system may be open for the denizens to go out and campaign in, far from and in the opposite direction of Earth and her allies.

This has nothing to do with the direct transmission of sound through space. In the various drafts of the scripts, starting with the first, it's made clear that Spock accidentally hits the transmit button for the console slot that holds the "tape cartridge" of the Romulan transmission received earlier. Watch the relevant scenes carefully.

Another secret revealed by deleted script details! It would have been nice if they'd included that "scrambled message" sound from earlier. It also doesn't
It doesn't happen to explain why all the crew a

Speaking of which, is this first instance of those square things being referred to as tapes?

The first draft of this episode, which contains the scene of Kirk protecting Rand, was finished on 6/21/1966. The draft of the Writers Guide that indicates that the captain should not do this was written on 4/15/1967.

Thanks again - I did wonder if one event influenced the other!

Now, that is a huge Webcam Scotty set up.

It's ultra, ultra super mega high definition. If the crew ever have a theatrical production on board, they'll probably use the same piece of equipment

What, no dress uniforms? Wedding without dress attire

Yeah that was a bit strange. Gave the whole ceremony a "teenagers elope to Gretna Green" kind of feeling
What I did like though was the depiction of religion in the future. The bride clearly has some religious beliefs which the groom doesn't share (she alone pauses for a short prayer before the speaking begins). No one takes this as unusual - everyone's own personal beliefs are accepted for what they are.

Damn, fix that phaser firing mechanism. It's just a push button. Give that button to Sulu. It'll save time. Instead the captain says fire, Sulu signals phaser control to fire, the officer there gives the command to fire, and another officer pushes a button to fire.

If we assume that all those guys in the Phaser Control Rooms (and yes, there are more than one) then it must be charging and maintaining the machinery that generates the phaser energy, ensuring that the power packs don't overload and take the ship with it! The button that Spock pushed could have been the final "commit" command after Tomlinson died setting all the other safeguards in place

 

[Maurice]

More illogic from Spock:
SPOCK: Doctor, didn't the boy make any reference at all to Thasians?
KIRK: Do you believe the legend, Mister Spock, that Thasians still exist on that planet in some form?
SPOCK: Charlie's very existence proves in fact there must be some intelligent form of life on Thasus. He could not possibly have survived alone. The ship's food concentrates would have been exhausted in a year or so.
MCCOY: By which time he would have been eating fruits, vegetables.
SPOCK: Probes of Thasus indicate very little edible plant life.
MCCOY: And probes have been known to be wrong, Spock.
MCCOY: Doctor, are you speaking scientifically or emotionally?

Lets see, which character is basing his comments on available scientific data and which one is focused on myth, tall tales and legends? According to legends the Thasians still exist. According to the data, they don't. Data does reveal limited vegetation but Charlie's existence suggests enough vegetation available to feed Charlie. Spock is the illogical one... Until the Thasians show up.

Spock is not being illogical. He is citing the probe data that indicates the planet has very little edible plant life and inferring that something else must be going on, so asks about the rumored Thasians. Whereas McCoy just jumps to the conclusion that the probes are wrong. Charlie survived where he should not have been able to, and both men are trying to find away to explain it. Spock says, we have data A and rumors of B, whereas Bones is all ah, data A is probably wrong.

 

[Marsden]

Charlie the tenth.

I seem to remember this episode of the Twilight Zone, with Billy Mumy.

So, Janice seems to get the worst of it again, having a weird horney teenager think he can claim her and when she says no he sends her to the cornfield. I wouldn't be surprised if she transfers to a better job.

Isn't it funny when Janice turns OFF the screen so Kirk and Spock can hear her and Charlie talking?

Was Tinaguana and Sam restored? Jan popped back in her pink dress, to the bridge, where are the others? And what about that girl that Charlie covered her face with a whatever, she must have suffocated before the Thasisans came back.

I really enjoyed the scenes in the rec room, but it bothers me when people experience impossible or bad things and just shrug them off, at least Spock was suspicious. All of the things Charlie produced or pulled, like the card appearing in her clothes, and she didn't suspect a thing. Maybe that's why she seemed so upset at the end, she didn't realize what a threat Charlie really was. No one was happy, but it seemed the best course, too bad Jim didn't learn anything from someone else getting incredible powers, like maybe one of his friends who was an officer. Spock, too.

 

[Poltargyst]

Charlie the tenth.

I certainly hope not. I found the one quite sufficient.

Was Tinaguana and Sam restored? Jan popped back in her pink dress, to the bridge, where are the others? And what about that girl that Charlie covered her face with a whatever, she must have suffocated before the Thasisans came back.

"Everything is as it was..."

 

[Shawnster]

The neutral zone may just be on the "Earth" side of the Romulan star system. At an extreme orbit, it can take centuries for the watchtower asteroids to move around the central star (and they doubtless have thrusters to maintain their positions). The other side of the Romulan system may be open for the denizens to go out and campaign in, far from and in the opposite direction of Earth and her allies.

Must it be a single star system? Earth is a planet. Vulcan is a planet. The neutral zone separates those two planets from the Romulan empire.

Is there any evidence that Romulus and Remus are in the same star system. That map showed 2 stars - Romulus and Romii. Or Rom II. It was hard to tell. At any rate, Remus was not listed on the map. Must be a planet orbiting Romii.

Spock is not being illogical. He is citing the probe data that indicates the planet has very little edible plant life and inferring that something else must be going on, so asks about the rumored Thasians. Whereas McCoy just jumps to the conclusion that the probes are wrong. Charlie survived where he should not have been able to, and both men are trying to find away to explain it. Spock says, we have data A and rumors of B, whereas Bones is all ah, data A is probably wrong.

So, it is logical to immediately jump to the conclusion mythical beings exist? Isn't it more logical the probe data was wrong?

 

[Maurice]

Spock concluded that given the planet's indicated inability to feed Charlie there must be some other factor at play. He's not saying "ghosts exist", he's simply saying some "intelligence" must have aided Charlie given the known data, and asks if Charlie mentioned the Thasians. He was trying to figure it out.

 

[Mytran]

Must it be a single star system? Earth is a planet. Vulcan is a planet. The neutral zone separates those two planets from the Romulan empire.

Is there any evidence that Romulus and Remus are in the same star system. That map showed 2 stars - Romulus and Romii. Or Rom II. It was hard to tell. At any rate, Remus was not listed on the map. Must be a planet orbiting Romii.

"Romulus 2" may be an alternative name for Remus (be it either a planet or a star)

Another reason I tend to lean towards a smaller scale is that if Rom & Rom2 are stars they would have to have several light years between them. That means that the outposts must similarly have even more light years between them. And given the time it takes for the Enterprise to move between the outposts, that is a factor magnitude too swift for my liking!

N.B. Unless the Rom2 star is placed 4 light years "down" of Rom? Star Trek maps don't typically depict 2 dimensional space like that, but it is a possibility...
The distance between the outposts could then be dramatically reduced

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

but it bothers me when people experience impossible or bad things and just shrug them off, at least Spock was suspicious. All of the things Charlie produced or pulled, like the card appearing in her clothes, and she didn't suspect a thing.

A bored kid all alone, struggling to survive? To not go insane, he might have tried to amuse himself with card tricks. The perfume could have been stolen from someone's crew quarters, or she was mistaken about not having any. Janice is much too preoccupied with "teenager has an embarrassing crush on me, how to shake him" to wonder if "teenager could have god-like powers that can kill us all".

 

[Shawnster]

"Romulus 2" may be an alternative name for Remus (be it either a planet or a star)

Is it confusing to use both Roman numerals (II) and Arabic numerals (2) on the same map? All the numbers are Arabic numbers. If Romii is actually Rom II, then it's the only oddity. Additionally, there is no space between the m and the II. Wouldn't Romulus II be written with a space between the m and the II? Why abbreviate Romulus II but not Romulus?

For what you suggest to make sense, we have to assume a punctuation error (space between m and II). We also have to assume that the mapmaker was supposed to be inconsistent in number format using both 2 and II on the same map? (I can actually live with that one. Talos 4 looks funny but Talos IV doesn't).

I think the lack of space between the m and the II is the telling point that this isn't a number. It's not Romulus 2. It's Romii or something like that.

Further, dialog clearly states Romulus and Remus, yet the map does not say Remus. That's another inconsistency. Makes more sense to look at a map of the US, for example, and have only states shown but discuss Cleveland and Indianapolis, since people generally know where those cities are located (especially people involved in the conversation). We have to assume yet another error was made on the map and Romii is actually the planet Remus?

Sloppy computer programming if that's the case. Fire the cartographer! ROM II needed a space and, on top of that, it's not ROM II but REMUS

Maybe one is official name and other is common name? Like having a map that says "Netherlands" but calling it "Holland?" We assume people know both names are interchangeable?

There is a scale on the map. 5,000 somethings... The scale does not exactly line up with the grid, however. More sloppiness from our cartographer. http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x14hd/balanceofterrorhd045.jpg

Maybe Romulus is the star and ROMII is a planet orbiting the star? That can explain why one dot is bigger than the other. Of course, that means only 1 planet depicted on the map yet the dialog mentions 2 planets.

 

[Mytran]

The topic of the RNZ, it's map, scale other associated Trek lore can easily fill a thread of it's own so hopefully this exploration of the lore won't derail this rewatch thread! The topic surfaced on the board again a few months ago and has some interesting ideas:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/balance-of-terror.291804/
(RNZ talk starts around page 3)

Fire the cartographer!

Yes, it's a bit of a garbled mess and that's before we try and fit in later depictions of the Romulans and the RNZ. Fortunately, thanks to @Maurice on a (much) older thread, we have the following which suggests what the map might have been intended to be, at least:

12 INSERT - SHIP'S VIEWING SCREEN

On which we see the stars moving past. The SHIMMER DISSOLVE to a gridded map of the heavens, showing to one side a curve of stations marked "OUTPOST ONE (through ELEVEN"). Beyond this curve, a curved space marked "Neutral Zone:, and extending off the map beyond that, a star system of which one of the planets is marked "ROMULUS"... the entire area is marked "ROMULAN STAR EMPIRE."

This description, plus the tail of the comet, plus the BOP having "simple impulse" all point to distances measured in millions of KM rather than dozens of light years

I think the lack of space between the m and the II is the telling point that this isn't a number. It's not Romulus 2. It's Romii or something like that
...
Maybe one is official name and other is common name? Like having a map that says "Netherlands" but calling it "Holland?" We assume people know both names are interchangeable?

Pretty much what I had in mind, yes; especially with TOS's tendancy to not over explain things in-universe.

There is a scale on the map. 5,000 somethings... The scale does not exactly line up with the grid, however. More sloppiness from our cartographer. http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x14hd/balanceofterrorhd045.jpg

The division lines do spill over the gridlines a little (did the artist not have a ruler?) but I'm comfortable interpreting it to mean 6 divisions per gridsquare. Whether each division represents 5,000 {Unknown Units Of Measurement} or whether the entire scale bar (15 divisions, 2½ squares) represents 5,000 UUOMs is not clear at all.

Maybe Romulus is the star and ROMII is a planet orbiting the star? That can explain why one dot is bigger than the other. Of course, that means only 1 planet depicted on the map yet the dialog mentions 2 planets.

It's equally possible that ROMII is the star and Romulus is the planet. This would put each grid square at about 1 AU and mean that the RNZ ploughs right through the edge of the Romulan solar system - no wonder the Rommies are angsty!

On the plus side, this rather tiny scale does put a large chunk of the RNZ at about the same distance from ROMII as the Terran asteroid belt. What were those outposts constructed on, again...?

But what of Remus? Since we are pretty much free to speculate on what is basically an unknown world, it could just be a twin planet or really large moon of Romulus. If we really want to break out of this thread and include Star Trek Nemesis, then the diagram that Data shows Picard show that Romulus and Remus match orbits occasionally:

It may simply be that at the time of the "scanner snapshot" displayed on the Enterprise viewscreen, Romulus and Remus were right next to each other and the computerised labelling system just picked the principle world.

 

[alchemist]

The division lines do spill over the gridlines a little (did the artist not have a ruler?) but I'm comfortable interpreting it to mean 6 divisions per gridsquare. Whether each division represents 5,000 {Unknown Units Of Measurement} or whether the entire scale bar (15 divisions, 2½ squares) represents 5,000 UUOMs is not clear at all.

FWIW, here's a close-up of the scale bar (sorry, I converted it to b/w, because).

I think the units are obvious...

 

[Commishsleer]

A bored kid all alone, struggling to survive? To not go insane, he might have tried to amuse himself with card tricks. The perfume could have been stolen from someone's crew quarters, or she was mistaken about not having any. Janice is much too preoccupied with "teenager has an embarrassing crush on me, how to shake him" to wonder if "teenager could have god-like powers that can kill us all".

Yes its understandable how Janice could have missed it.
But how about Spock and Uhura. Suddenly Spock's harp didn't make a sound and at the same time Uhura lost her voice. Why didn't Spock report this or did Charlie make him forget? I don't necessarily think Spock would have thought Charlie caused it but it would have been a reportable incident - at least a funny story for Spock and Uhura to talk about on the bridge. Spock's made correct guesses with much less information than this.

 

[Mytran]

FWIW, here's a close-up of the scale bar (sorry, I converted it to b/w, because).

I think the units are obvious...

Umm yes! Totally clear...

Actually, someone on the other thread (assuming that the circle represents an orbiting planet) suggested AUs as a possibility. If each division represents 5000 AUs then 12 of them (or 2 grids) would be 60,000 AUs, which is very nearly a light year

 

[Mytran]

On a non RNZ related note, did anyone else notice the abundance of eyelighting in this episode? There's always been a bit of this scattered about previous episodes, but this week there was loads! Maybe the lighting overall was lower to emphasise the fire situation, hence the need for extra eyelighting?

 

[Desert Kris]

When I was a very young fan of Star Trek, there were many episodes that I did not get a chance to see. I did not know about Balance of Terror for a while, or that Romulans are the major antagonist of 3 episodes. I knew about the Klingons, especially from the movies, and I had seen the word "Romulan" and knew only that they were a race of antagonists secondary to the Klingons. I was reading Diane Duane's novel, Final Frontier, which revealed that the Romulans were once Vulcan that had schism and evolved into a "cousin" race. I was completely blown away by this idea.

Years later, I caught Balance of Terror in the TV line up and taped it, and watched it like crazy. I loved everything about the episode. I was undeterred by the dialogue being vague about the relationship between Vulcans and Romulans, I had already read it in a book where it was treated as a done deal.

One thing that struck me about the Balance episode when I watched it for my production order viewing was that a lot of the major action beats were less spread throughout the story. Even after the many times I had watched the taped version, I was completely surprised that a majority of the gambits and changes of fortune happen in the last 10-15 minutes of the story, which made it feel lopsided compared to my memory of it from before. It's still terrific, through and through. It also feels disconnected from other early Trek episodes in the sense that it doesn't feel like an early Trek episode, but I can't explain why it feels tonally more consistent with what Trek grows into being.

 

[Maurice]

...I did not know about Balance of Terror for a while, or that Romulans are the major protagonist of 3 episodes....

^^^Methinks you mean antagonist. Kirk and crew are the protagonists on Star Trek.

And the Romulans actually appear in only two episodes. Stock footage puts their ships into "The Deadly Years" but they're pretty incidental to the story.

 

[Desert Kris]

^^^Methinks you mean antagonist. Kirk and crew are the protagonists on Star Trek.

And the Romulans actually appear in only two episodes. Stock footage puts their ships into "The Deadly Years" but they're pretty incidental to the story.

Dear gods...yep, antagonist is what I mean. As for the Deadly Years, it could easily have been Klingons in their place; but I'm glad the Romulans get the one additional occasion to be a major political superpower

 

[J.T.B.]

An army batman has to look out for the well being of his/her superior officer. She was just making sure Kirk didn't stumble.

This seems to have come up a lot lately, and I'm not a fan. A "batman" was a British military servant, back when the officer class came from social backgrounds where domestic servants were a way of life. That kind of thing died out in the 20th century, and with good reason. The top enlisted member of the US Navy had to resign recently for, among other things, using enlisted sailors to handle personal matters for him.

An assistant or aide is one thing, but a personal servant doesn't really fit with my idea of how Starfleet has been presented.

 

[Mytran]

WHAT ARE LITTLE GIRLS MADE OF?

Just kicking things off with a few thoughts: This is your fairly typical "technology run amok!" story and in fact Brown even gives Chapel a short lecture on what can happen when a race surrenders itself to technology, in defiance of the natural human spirit of self determination. This theme of keeping the amount of technology in our lives balanced is something that will reappear in later episodes.
Although for all his obsession with a "mechanistic culture" I'm glad to see that Dr Korby doesn’t shy away from using good old fashioned STRING to fix his chairs with

I think this is the first time we actually have Redshirts dying on a landing party! A sad tradition has begun...

Was Chapel’s role originally written for a different character? She’s quite different to the woman fawning over Mr Spock a few episodes ago. We also learn that she gave up a career in bio-research to "sign aboard" a starship. This is the same wording that Kirk used with Tormolen in The Naked Time and perhaps suggests short tours of duty (since Tormolen kept signing on and didn't seem that old). It also implies that you tend to start at a low entry rank in Starfleet, regardless of your prior qualifications (or that bio-researchers are a dime a dozen!)

The Cage laser pistols make another appearance. I guess UESPA really does operate an army surplus!

Part of the Enterprise's mission does indeed seem to be physical specimen collection, be that plant, animal or otherwise. We saw that in Enemy Within, mention of shipping artefacts in Man Trap and Ruk-Kirk mentions Korby's extensive specimen collection to Spock. A large part of the Enterprise must consist of zoological gardens!

And finally, that look Christine gives to Andrea when she first sees her is priceless – utter disgust and contempt!

 

[Pauln6]

This seems to have come up a lot lately, and I'm not a fan. A "batman" was a British military servant, back when the officer class came from social backgrounds where domestic servants were a way of life. That kind of thing died out in the 20th century, and with good reason. The top enlisted member of the US Navy had to resign recently for, among other things, using enlisted sailors to handle personal matters for him.

An assistant or aide is one thing, but a personal servant doesn't really fit with my idea of how Starfleet has been presented.

I agree and yet apparently, that's precisely how Roddenberry saw her. When Rand was listed in an early draft of a script sitting at the science station, Roddenberry nixed the idea and said Rand should remain Kirk's 'valet'. She has been seen delivering food and coffee in three episodes to date, so she's already trapped in a servant role. So do we just shrug and say, Rand was a sexist character who should properly be replaced by feminist icon, Nurse Chapel, or do we look for ways for her to be a more relevant modern role model?

Rand is not an officer. The gulf between her and the three male leads stands out in several scenes. The dynamic was in the script. However, she is still Starfleet, with the same training as her male counterparts.

In the confines of her role, I think the 'batman' idea is incredibly liberating for her. It preserves the personal assistant role of the yeoman but she's not just beaming down to the planet to switch on the tricorder, and to wait to be rescued after changing into a period costume, she's there as Kirk's personal security support, more like Yeoman Landon.

She becomes his personal shuttle pilot and could have appeared in more episodes in that regard too, such as Metamorphosis. She might even have been the pilot in the Galileo 7 and, if her technical skills from City on the Edge of Forever had been developed, she would have been helping Scotty fix the shuttle instead of just carrying equipment off.

We don't need to view the batman role in its historical context but rather how that role could have been interpreted within the fictional setting to expand her beyond her very limited, sexist roots. I think it's a great fit because we already see shades of it in the Apple and indeed in Dagger of the Mind, but that's an upcoming treat :-)