Production Order Group Viewing 2018

[Shawnster]

That's very true, I don't think the scene portrays either woman as particularly smart or considerate, although you can see Rand is at least working on it. A more sensible approach would be for him to spend time with them both but everyone is trying to fob him off. .

This would have been a good scene for ship's counselor McKennah. Too bad she doesn't come on until season 4.

I like the idea of using Chapel in this role. That would expand her character.

 

[Shawnster]

Charlie X

Charles Xavier

Both have mental powers. Hmmm

A bottle episode with all the scenes on the Enterprise. Minimal effects when compared to explosions or Phaser blasts.

No Sulu this week? Are we going to start rotating helm characters? I hope not. Maybe he will be back.

Rand again in the romantic or emotional situations. Definitely a product 60s writing. Most prominent female character must be embroiled in the romance stories. She still has to be recovering from the assault from evil Kirk. She deals with it well, though.

More illogic from Spock:
SPOCK: Doctor, didn't the boy make any reference at all to Thasians?
KIRK: Do you believe the legend, Mister Spock, that Thasians still exist on that planet in some form?
SPOCK: Charlie's very existence proves in fact there must be some intelligent form of life on Thasus. He could not possibly have survived alone. The ship's food concentrates would have been exhausted in a year or so.
MCCOY: By which time he would have been eating fruits, vegetables.
SPOCK: Probes of Thasus indicate very little edible plant life.
MCCOY: And probes have been known to be wrong, Spock.
MCCOY: Doctor, are you speaking scientifically or emotionally?

Lets see, which character is basing his comments on available scientific data and which one is focused on myth, tall tales and legends? According to legends the Thasians still exist. According to the data, they don't. Data does reveal limited vegetation but Charlie's existence suggests enough vegetation available to feed Charlie. Spock is the illogical one... Until the Thasians show up.

At least Spock is a good sport in the rec room scene. But that emotional display from him is shameful.

Speaking of the rec room scene... Love the interplay between Spock /Uhura and Uhura /Rand. They do write these lower decks or off duty moments well. Down to the subtle "no" gesture from Rand when Uhura sings about Charlie's unrequited love.

Uhura's song references Spock's planned hypnotic abilities seen in Omega Glory and A Taste of Armageddon (I think). Also references his never pinch. At least that's my take.

Uhura and the others were a bit insensitive toward this teenager. It's like the characters forgot what been an awkward teen was like. Charlie acted great as a typical awkward, emotional teen. Well written!

I wasn't too learn how to play 3d chess. Maybe I should start with the checkers.

Interesting bars that slide out of the door frame at the entrance to the detention area. Was this the first appearance of the brig?

Synthetic meatloaf. Not synthetic turkey. These food slots need a galley? The food is synthetic? They can't make or don't have synthetic turkey? Did the live turkeys get returned at the end of the episode? Did they get eaten?

The guys battling with the staffs in the gym - were they practicing Anbo-jyutsu? Were they Vulcan lirpas?

Melodramatic much Uhura? I'm sure you've been bitten by sparking control boards in your career. That was a bit much.

I don't think even men snack each other on the behind like that anymore.

428 people? Must be more crowded in than Pike's ship. This is the same ship, right?

Cargo ship/survey ship/science probe Antares. Busy little ship.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yes indeed, good catch!

What's odd though is that although the Thasians are definitely energy beings of a sort (Charlie laments that they can't be touched) they still need to travel through space IN A SHIP. How do they operate the controls? Is there one rusting hulk on the planet that they dust off for such situations, using telekinesis to push the buttons? Are they a spacefaring culture or was this a special trip, in order to recapture Charlie?

TOS-R tries to mitigate this oddity by showing a semi-transparent glowy Thasian ship but that just raises more questions. If the corporeal Thasians got where they are by evolving into energy beings, does that mean that the ship evolved too?

It's a good ending and I do like the use of the "I have taken my form of centuries ago" trope, but the presence of a ship is more than a little silly IMO

I assume the ship, like their form, was created for interaction with corporeal beings. They might actually be the ship. Hopefully Charlie won't learn that trick.

 

[Shawnster]

It may only need to exist to transport Charlie


So, the questions are did the Thasians know Charlie was rescued? If not, why not? Were they chasing Charlie this whole time? Did they let Charlie leave then realize it was a mistake? Were they listening in and observing or how did they know they needed to restore all they could?

 

[Mytran]

Interesting bars that slide out of the door frame at the entrance to the detention area. Was this the first appearance of the brig?

There was the containment area in WNMHGB but in that case the forcefield generators were built into the doorway. I would imagine that the main difference with Charlie's cell is that they had had to modify his existing crew quarters. This was indicated in an earlier draft of the script:

KIRK: Do you think a force field will hold him?
SPOCK: It's worth a try... but I doubt if he would let himself be lured into a detention cell. There is a possibility... his quarters are on deck five...we could rig a force field at his room door...All the lab circuitry runs through the main corridor on deck five... we could use that. If we can manage it, we could have the field activated when he was inside...his door would look the same...
KIRK: How long will the work take?
SPOCK: Seventy-two hours minimum.
KIRK: It's going to be a long seventy-two hours, Mr. Spock. Get on it.
SPOCK: Yes, sir.

http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/articles/charlie.htm

The guys battling with the staffs in the gym - were they practising Anbo-jyutsu? Were they Vulcan lirpas?

Oh, a thousand times yes! That is definitely in my head canon now.

I don't think even men snack each other on the behind like that anymore.

Given that the crew usually have to eat synthetic meatloaf, casual snacking is probably the norm.

 

[Poltargyst]

Balance of Terror

One of my favorites!

Introducing the Navigator of the Week: Mr. Stiles! It's good that there are so many officers aboard who are qualified navigators, but I do wonder why they have to rotate so many into the position.

I find myself confused as to how the Cloaking Device works, and if anyone can explain it, I'd appreciate it. My thinking has always been, perhaps it's presented this way on later episodes and series, is that when a ship cloaks, they can still perfectly see their adversaries, but they cannot be detected in any way by their adversaries. But, they cannot fire weapons because the cloak takes too much energy, so they have to decloak to fire. But that's not how the CD is depicted in this episode. The CD works both ways? So the Romulan ship can't see the Enterprise either when they have the cloak on? But the Romulans can be detected by motion sensors and can detect the Enterprise by motions sensors with the cloak up? If the Enterprise knows where the Romulan ship is even when they have the cloak up, what good is the cloak?

Ooooh, the Romulans look like Vulcans! Spock looks at them with this "well that just figures" look on his face. I'm impressed that somehow they were able to get a look at the Romulan bridge.

My long-standing position is that Romulans on TOS are much more honorable than TNG Romulans, and that TNG ruined Romulans by turning them into nothing but back-stabbing weasels. I see no comparison between TOS Romulans and TNG Romulans, but people here have argued this with me that Romulans are the same be it TOS or TNG. Baloney. Case in point, our Mark Lenard Romulan commander. He does not like war, he does not want war. He's seen 100 campaigns, he has seen too much death already. He wants no part of this mission, he wants to go home. He is bound by honor to do his duty to the letter, and he is doing so much as he doesn't like it. He expresses that he would almost rather die than succeed in this mission as it will lead to more war and death. He displays courage, honor, duty, fear, compassion. When it looks like they are "going in for the kill" to destroy the Enterprise, the Commander takes no pleasure in it. "We are creatures of duty, Captain." I defy anyone to show me a TNG Romulan character with as much depth. TNG ruined the Romulans plain and simple.

"Their power is simple impulse." As I said in another thread recently, that's ridiculous. My preferred explanation is that they have warp speeds, but are nowhere near as fast as Enterprise.

A good TOS briefing room scene. Heated words as people defend their positions, and you can see both sides of the issue. Such drama! What are they going to do????

So they need to "see" the Romulan ship to target them with phasers accurately, but can target them with sensors though less accurately. Hmm, okay.

The depth charges...er...phasers look like photon torpedoes. Have we seen photon torpedoes yet in the series?

"Captain, are they surrendering?" Oh, fuck no.

Kirk and Rand get in a last snuggle when they think they might die.

So the Romulan plasma weapon goes warp speeds?

So the Enterprise sat still for hours because the Romulans couldn't see them either with the cloak up except by motion sensor, and if the Enterprise wasn't moving, the Romulans didn't know where they were either.

I realize this is a WWII submarine movie, but it makes no sense to me that these crews have to actually be quiet or be heard by the other. Sound doesn't travel in space. In space, no one can hear you scream.

Spock, embarrassed that he made a noise. But how did the Romulans hear it? Did it send a signal? Spock happened to hit a button that sent a signal?

Wow, the Enterprise can take a nuclear detonation 100m away. Did they even have shields up at that point?

Uhura takes navigation again! How many times is this now? Three?

Stiles = insubordinate douche.

Spock runs so hokey.

So when Kirk orders "fire phasers", not only does the navigator have to push a button, someone down in fire control also has to push a button?

I wonder if Kirk and the Romulan commander were friends in the Mirror Universe.

Always loved this episode!

 

[Pauln6]

Balance of Terror is also probably my favourite episode. It does have flaws with hindsight, such as the unwieldy phaser firing process (charging phaser banks and switching to a fully charged bank might be the purpose of phaser control but surely not a secondary fire button ) and the improbability of a sub light only assassin but I still love it.

The villain is actually a nice guy under orders rather than a moustache twirling psycho (reboot movies take note) and I like that different races have different technological advantages.

The cloak as portrayed is probably more sensible that later versions (to hide long distance travel rather than ship to ship contact) since anything travelling through space is going to disturb gas and emit charged particles for manoeuvres. All the cloak does at close range is prevent a visual identification and a weapons lock.

Stiles is a bit too racist and out of control but I love Kirk's cat and mouse tactics and his angst about starting a war that so brilliantly mirrors the Romulan's feelings.

I find Rand's final line to be embarrassingly pointless in that she shows no empathic sense of irony e.g. by adding something like, "For what that's worth."

 

[Mytran]

Another very strong entry to the series.

This is our first opportunity to see Kirk as a true military commander; up ‘til now the threats they’ve faced have been extremely localised, mostly just affecting the Enterprise and her crew. This time however, Kirk’s decisions could plunge the Earth back into war with their old foe and he bears the weight heavily upon his shoulders

A lot of world building this episode…More history of the future, with a terrible war was fought a century ago. Lt Stiles still holds a grudge (man, that’s a long time to harbour thoughts of vengeance)

Introducing the Navigator of the Week: Mr. Stiles! It's good that there are so many officers aboard who are qualified navigators, but I do wonder why they have to rotate so many into the position.

Not just that, but there a great many specialists on board. Once the Enterprise gets nuked and suffers a mere 22 casualties out of 428 crew, only one phaser control room is left manned and that by a single officer. Thankfully, Uhura is not the only multi-disciplined person on board and Stiles can come to the rescue!

Stiles is a bit too racist and out of control but I love Kirk's cat and mouse tactics and his angst about starting a war that so brilliantly mirrors the Romulan's feelings.

Stile’s paranoia about the fact that there might be spies on board does seems to come out of nowhere. IMO they would have done better to keep the deleted lines of dialogue which suggested that the Romulan ship was based on stolen Earth designs; it would have led his train of thought more naturally to spies, then to not trusting Spock.

Stiles = insubordinate douche.

Speaking of which, is Stiles new on board ship? We’ve been with Spock for 8 episodes now and nothing we’ve seen from him might suggest him capable of betrayal, which would be the crew’s viewpoint also.
Is the navigator’s position something that all newbies get assigned to during their first week on board?

"Their power is simple impulse." As I said in another thread recently, that's ridiculous. My preferred explanation is that they have warp speeds, but are nowhere near as fast as Enterprise.

I don’t have a problem with the BOP being sublight (even if the Romulans as a whole must be a FTL capable species) because the dialogue in this episode suggests that the Romulan Neutral Zone encompasses just one planetary system (the RNZ is a buffer for a couple of planets). The encounter with the tail of a comet (something that only appears near a sun) further supports this notion. Later episodes suggest that the RNZ is much larger, but the events of this episode work just fine with the smaller model.

I find myself confused as to how the Cloaking Device works, and if anyone can explain it, I'd appreciate it. My thinking has always been, perhaps it's presented this way on later episodes and series, is that when a ship cloaks, they can still perfectly see their adversaries, but they cannot be detected in any way by their adversaries. But, they cannot fire weapons because the cloak takes too much energy, so they have to decloak to fire. But that's not how the CD is depicted in this episode. The CD works both ways? So the Romulan ship can't see the Enterprise either when they have the cloak on? But the Romulans can be detected by motion sensors and can detect the Enterprise by motions sensors with the cloak up? If the Enterprise knows where the Romulan ship is even when they have the cloak up, what good is the cloak? ."

Well first of all, this is an early cloaking device so it’s bound to be less useful than later versions. My feeling is that the BOP has normal sensors but they are less effective when cloaked (hence they can mistake the Enterprise for a sensor echo). The BOP cannot be flying truly blind, they’d hit something! Likewise, the Enterprise may be able to track the wake of the BOP through interstellar gasses or whatnot (thanks for the idea, Pauln6), but that is not enough to establish a firm weapons lock. To truly disappear, all the vessel needs to do is stop, as is shown in the episode itself.

And the Bird of Prey seems very small. It’s a hit & run vessel with limited living space, no medical facilities and very basic propulsion. It is little more than weapon with wings. Perhaps the Praetor has minimalist tastes for his flagship?

A good TOS briefing room scene. Heated words as people defend their positions, and you can see both sides of the issue. Such drama! What are they going to do????

For all TNG’s obsession with holding staff meetings, TOS has some really good ones.
And because it's manly war meeting about war stuff; no girls allowed!

The depth charges...er...phasers look like photon torpedoes. Have we seen photon torpedoes yet in the series?

Nope, and we still haven’t!
However, these time-delay phaser bursts seem to be a real strain on the ship’s computer control systems. In apparently normal use, they burn out!

I realize this is a WWII submarine movie, but it makes no sense to me that these crews have to actually be quiet or be heard by the other. Sound doesn't travel in space. In space, no one can hear you scream.
…
Spock, embarrassed that he made a noise. But how did the Romulans hear it? Did it send a signal? Spock happened to hit a button that sent a signal?

I always just assumed it was a sensor beam control or something. However, given the crew’s predisposition towards keeping quiet, it could just as well have been the noise! Space noise!! Of the future!!!

So when Kirk orders "fire phasers", not only does the navigator have to push a button, someone down in fire control also has to push a button?

… the unwieldy phaser firing process (charging phaser banks and switching to a fully charged bank might be the purpose of phaser control but surely not a secondary fire button) and the improbability of a sub light only assassin but I still love it.

It seems a little low tech, but does at least give a reason for some of the rest of the crew to exist. Maybe the phaser energy generation machinery is just that powerful, it demands constant human monitoring?
Plus, we get to see yet another redress of the Engine Room. It is an incredibly versatile set!

I find Rand's final line to be embarrassingly pointless in that she shows no empathic sense of irony e.g. by adding something like, "For what that's worth."

Wasn’t that implied, with Kirk’s reaction?

Kirk and Rand get in a last snuggle when they think they might die.

Yeah, someone was not reading the writer’s guide when they wrote that scene!

 

[Pauln6]

Well first of all, this is an early cloaking device so it’s bound to be less useful than later versions. My feeling is that the BOP has normal sensors but they are less effective when cloaked (hence they can mistake the Enterprise for a sensor echo). The BOP cannot be flying truly blind, they’d hit something! Likewise, the Enterprise may be able to track the wake of the BOP through interstellar gasses or whatnot (thanks for the idea, Pauln6), but that is not enough to establish a firm weapons lock. To truly disappear, all the vessel needs to do is stop, as is shown in the episode itself.

And the Bird of Prey seems very small. It’s a hit & run vessel with limited living space, no medical facilities and very basic propulsion. It is little more than weapon with wings. Perhaps the Praetor has minimalist tastes for his flagship?

Wasn’t that implied, with Kirk’s reaction?

Yeah, someone was not reading the writer’s guide when they wrote that scene!

I prefer the early cloak. It makes more sense scientifically IMO. Space is so dark that it must be next to impossible to spot any unlit object without sensors in any event so anything that can scatter sensor locks must be useful but less so if you can't raise shields, since you are highly vulnerable to proximity charges. I would have thought that a space warp would be detectable at a distance, not to mention that a warp trail is traceable for a time until it decays at least.

Maybe it is much harder to lock on to a point of origin to a vessel's emissions than one might assume.

I would have loved a few more Romulan espionage episodes.

I think it's Rand's deadpan delivery that feels off. If she's meant to be his confidante she shows a lack of empathy that makes her seem like a dullard.

The hug never bothered me. An army batman has to look out for the well being of his/her superior officer. She was just making sure Kirk didn't stumble.

 

[Poltargyst]

I don’t have a problem with the BOP being sublight (even if the Romulans as a whole must be a FTL capable species) because the dialogue in this episode suggests that the Romulan Neutral Zone encompasses just one planetary system (the RNZ is a buffer for a couple of planets).

But the Commander has been on a hundred campaigns. That makes it sound like a large empire. How do you have a hundred campaigns all in your own solar system? Did they have to go on multiple campaigns for each planet in their solar system?

And the Bird of Prey seems very small. It’s a hit & run vessel with limited living space, no medical facilities and very basic propulsion. It is little more than weapon with wings. Perhaps the Praetor has minimalist tastes for his flagship?

It is the submarine to Enterprise's destroyer in this sub movie.

 

[Poltargyst]

I forgot to update my Alien Watch

Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)
Romulans!

 

[alchemist]

I realize this is a WWII submarine movie, but it makes no sense to me that these crews have to actually be quiet or be heard by the other. Sound doesn't travel in space. In space, no one can hear you scream.

Spock, embarrassed that he made a noise. But how did the Romulans hear it? Did it send a signal? Spock happened to hit a button that sent a signal?

This has nothing to do with the direct transmission of sound through space. In the various drafts of the scripts, starting with the first, it's made clear that Spock accidentally hits the transmit button for the console slot that holds the "tape cartridge" of the Romulan transmission received earlier. Watch the relevant scenes carefully.

Yeah, someone was not reading the writer’s guide when they wrote that scene!

The first draft of this episode, which contains the scene of Kirk protecting Rand, was finished on 6/21/1966. The draft of the Writers Guide that indicates that the captain should not do this was written on 4/15/1967.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Spock, embarrassed that he made a noise. But how did the Romulans hear it? Did it send a signal?

Damn their Romulan hearing! [/McCoy]

 

[Poltargyst]

Spock just so happened to hit the transmit button. Okay.

 

[Shawnster]

Now, that is a huge Webcam Scotty set up.

What, no dress uniforms? Wedding without dress attire

Neutral Zone separates planets Romulus and Remus from the rest of the galaxy. No indication those planets are in same star system. Earth outposts on asteroids. Are they just floating in space? In orbit? Earth and allies fought against the Romulans (and allies?) Maybe Remus was an ally? Kinda like Austria to Germany?

Outposts destroyed by unknown weapon. Reminds me of TNG episode The Neutral Zone where outposts were destroyed by unknown forces.

Outpost commander in a different color uniform with different patch. Nice touch.

Makes sense an invisible ship would not use active scans. Those would give the position away. Power consumption is irrelevant.

New navigator of the week is a hothead. Paranoid much?

Romulan communications rely on dramatic camera shots and OMG Spock is a Romulan! Kirk is a cool head. It'd be easy for everyone to not trust Spock right now. Ok, Spock probably is not a Romulan.

Who is this Decius and how can he inform the Praetor of their victory? Must be the son of some important senator.

Reminds me of that old movie "The Enemy Below." Or maybe "Run Silent, Run Deep."

Cast rodinium is the hardest substance known. Why are Sulu and Stiles at this briefing? They aren't senior officers, are they? Dig the hardbound book on the table.

This is an exciting episode. Pew pew. First time we've seen a battle.

Phasers set for proximity blast. They have different settings.

Aw, the old centurion. A moment of silence.

Full power. Ahead full. Emergency warp. Is warp a propellant? I mean, does warp use like turbo thrust or something?

Rand! Hello Janice!

If you know where the intruder is going, can't you shoot him? What are you detecting?

Spock leaning over Stiles shoulder. Subtle dig from Mr "I am in control of my emotions?"

Motion sensor must be like the motion sensor on my porch light. Picks up motion but doesn't pinpoint the object or car or dog running by.

No beach to walk on... I wish I were on a sea voyage. ... Why me? The one named Kirk has doubts now and then. Moments of remorse or regret.

Damn, Spock is a spy! Or at least prone to mistakes. He must have activated a sensor device. Active scan.

OK, when I tilt the camera, everyone lurch to one side. Damn it Nichelle, you went opposite everyone else. Ah well nobody will notice.

Radiation exposure is no big deal.

Sulu, what is that look when Uhura took navigation control?

Shut up Decius you suck up. "Permit me the glory of the attack." What a dweeb. Silver spoon in his mouth for sure. Not the Preaetors kid, but son of some nobleman.

Damn, fix that phaser firing mechanism. It's just a push button. Give that button to Sulu. It'll save time. Instead the captain says fire, Sulu signals phaser control to fire, the officer there gives the command to fire, and another officer pushes a button to fire.

Aw, Tomlinson died. Guess we should have seen that coming. Either him or her. Can't have a happy ending as that would feel odd. His death doesn't make sense, it never makes sense, but there was a reason. One of those inscrutable contradictions in combat life I suppose.

What a great episode. Best of the season so far. Action and excitement. Loved it.

So do we ever find the connection between Romulan and Vulcan? A lost colony like Spock suggested. He didn't know they were related. Maybe they just look similar. Have we seen any aliens that look like humans yet? Can there be aliens that look like Vulcans? Do they have to be related?

How can you fight a war and never know what the enemy looked like? No ground combat? Nobody examined wreckage? No floating bodies in space like in this episode? Nobody ever captured a ship? What kind of war is exclusively aerial or ship combat? Obviously not much fighting for territory. Apparently the Romulans lost yet the peace treaty was not negotiated in person and no stipulations were made that they see one another. Odd.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Apparently the Romulans lost yet the peace treaty was not negotiated in person and no stipulations were made that they see one another. Odd.

I have this picture of everyone meeting in a dark room, Federation representatives blindfolded or with their backs turned. Or perhaps they sent a third party mediator.

 

[Pauln6]

I have this picture of everyone meeting in a dark room, Federation representatives blindfolded or with their backs turned. Or perhaps they sent a third party mediator.

They all wore Michael Myers masks.

 

[mb22]

They all wore Michael Myers masks.

You mean a Bill Shatner mask.

 

[Shawnster]

So, who are these allies? Human colonies that are independent of Earth gov? Vulcan? Other aliens we haven't seen yet?

So, what is the political picture like? There is Earth. We've visited Earth Colonies. Mention keeps being made of Earth ships.

Kirk mentioned UESPA - United Earth Space Probe Agency. (or so I'm told)

Spock is Vulcan or Vulcanian from the planet Vulcan (which has no moon). Spock is half Vulcan, half Human.

Vulcans appear to be related to Romulans, as Spock suspects. Perhaps the Romulans are from a long lost Vulcan colony. Vulcan had a savage period of colonization time.

 

[Pauln6]

You mean a Bill Shatner mask.

There is no alternate universe where the Shat is not a legend.