No love for Star Trek V?

[Mojochi]

You have a valid point there. I suppose the question then would be, were those images he conjured some form of overt mind control, or did they just come directly from the person's mind and Sybok somehow was able to project those thoughts into physical form? Because even if Sybok helped me deal with the pain of losing my father or the rejection thereof, and showed me images of my father, I'm still not going to help him on his nutty quest to find God.

My personal way of looking at it was that it was more than that, even though he claimed it wasn't. What person is going to confess or even admit to themselves that level of inappropriate coercion, if they truly think they're helping someone?

We know by the end that Sybok is blind to pretty much everything he's done in pursuit of his obsession. I have no qualms about thinking he'd rationalize away his mind control as innocuous, & influence others to see it that way.

 

[Vger23]

My personal way of looking at it was that it was more than that, even though he claimed it wasn't. What person is going to confess or even admit to themselves that level of inappropriate coercion, if they truly think they're helping someone?

We know by the end that Sybok is blind to pretty much everything he's done in pursuit of his obsession. I have no qualms about thinking he'd rationalize away his mind control as innocuous, & influence others to see it that way.

That's precisely how I viewed it.

 

[Valenti]

That's quite a lot of mind control. The whole crew?

 

[Vger23]

That's quite a lot of mind control. The whole crew?

It was a skeleton crew and most of the senior officers were compromised. I doubt there were 50 total people aboard.

Like I said: see TNG "Sarek" for how potent Vulcan telepathic influence can be.

 

[David cgc]

Another love for TFF is for the production design of these two props:

• Assault Type-2 Phasers
• Communicators [updated TOS versions]

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I'm pretty sure the communicators were from TSFS. Though I do agree they were the best of the movie era, I can see why they stuck with them. The TMP wrist communicators were... of a piece with the rest of that film's design... but I don't like the TWOK brick communicators.

 

[Galileo7]

I'm pretty sure the communicators were from TSFS. Though I do agree they were the best of the movie era, I can see why they stuck with them. The TMP wrist communicators were... of a piece with the rest of that film's design... but I don't like the TWOK brick communicators.

Yes, the SFS and TFF Communicators have identical outer shells and gold flip top like TOS. However, the interior is blue for SFS and arrow controls for TFF. TFF interior arrow controls is why I chose that version. Although, I would have liked a replication of TOS Communicator interior.

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[JonnyQuest037]

Given that THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK was all about how these long-time friends will risk everything for each other, it was particularly jarring and hard to swallow that Kirk's loyal crew would turn against him while only being kinda, sorta brainwashed . . maybe.

Agreed. That was a big part of why I had trouble buying the whole "Spock's long-lost brother" thing. 20+ years into Trek's continuity is bit late to be pulling the "never-before mentioned sibling" thing, especially when Spock put his katra into McCoy just a couple of movies before. I don't see Kirk, Spock, and McCoy having many secrets left from each other by that point.

It suffers from executive meddling, issues with the SFX company, and some poor story choices. I think there's the basis for an excellent movie in there but it needed a lot more work to get there.

There were also problems with writer availability (both Nicholas Meyer and Erik von Lustbader were busy with other projects) as well as the writer's strike of 1988. Both of those hurt the movie.

Shatner was also handicapped by the fact that pretty much all of the previous story threads had been all wrapped up in STIV. He basically had to start from scratch in coming up with a story, whereas Nimoy had stuff to follow up on in both of his films.

Really, Shatner had more than his share of troubles both writing and filming that movie.

I think that's it in a nutshell. The ingredients are all there, but it seemed whatever could go wrong did.

Yeah. I feel like it might've been a better film if it'd just concentrated on the action/suspense elements and didn't try to make some grand statement about God or humanity. I think a Die Hard in Space sort of story could've suited Shatner's talents well.

A lot of fans were stung by the notion that Spock would have a half-brother nobody would know about. I always wonder if these folks ever watched Star Trek. One of Spock's PRIMARY character traits is he is an extremely private and (logically of course) prideful person about his past and his culture.

Yeah, but it was a lot more believable on TOS when the main characters didn't know Spock as well. After everything they'd gone through together in the previous films, I found the Sybok thing really hard to swallow. I might've had an easier time buying it if the story or the actor had been more convincing. I wonder if Sean Connery could've made me buy Sybok...

watched it the day it came out. didn't watch it again and can't imagine doing so unless Crow T Robot and Tom Servo get involved.

There is a RiffTrax commentary available for the film with MST's Mike Nelson, Bill Corbett, and Kevin Murphy. It's pretty funny. They also have commentaries on STVI and GEN.

 

[Valenti]

Sean Connery looking for Sha Ka Ree. Makes sense.

 

[Lance]

God *is* love.

Unfortunately God doesn't need love, all God needs is a starship.

And no Sean Connery as Sybok wouldn't have made the movie better, Connery has been in his fair share of bad movies and bad acting roles and one suspects STV would have definitely been one of his less enthusiastic performances.

 

[Khan 2.0]

God *is* love.

Unfortunately God doesn't need love, all God needs is a starship.

And no Sean Connery as Sybok wouldn't have made the movie better, Connery has been in his fair share of bad movies and bad acting roles and one suspects STV would have definitely been one of his less enthusiastic performances.

had Connery not been offered Indy Last Crusade (guaranteed hit, Spielberg) he probably would accepted Trek V as it was coming off the hugely successful TVH so looked like a hit in waiting (would've been interesting to see the foreign box office as hes bound to have made some difference)

nothing went right for shatner did it - no Connery, no ILM, Rock monster wouldn't work, writers strike, etc

 

[JonVP]

The movie definitely has its flaws (especially in the CGI department), but it had a lot of great stuff too. To name a few things:
- the dynamic between Kirk, Spock and McCoy (f.e. campfire scene)
- the score by Goldsmith
- the opening scene on Nimbus III
- the new bridge of the Enterprise

Although not the best movie in the franchise, it's still fun to watch.

 

[Damian]

Agreed. That was a big part of why I had trouble buying the whole "Spock's long-lost brother" thing. 20+ years into Trek's continuity is bit late to be pulling the "never-before mentioned sibling" thing, especially when Spock put his katra into McCoy just a couple of movies before. I don't see Kirk, Spock, and McCoy having many secrets left from each other by that point.

Yeah, but it was a lot more believable on TOS when the main characters didn't know Spock as well. After everything they'd gone through together in the previous films, I found the Sybok thing really hard to swallow. I might've had an easier time buying it if the story or the actor had been more convincing. I wonder if Sean Connery could've made me buy Sybok

Yeah. Same here. I could buy that he didn't advertise it to the general public. But Kirk and McCoy I'm sure would know (and I hadn't considered McCoy having Spock's Katra--I would think there'd be few secrets between those two at that point).

I always thought Sybok would have been better if he had been an early mentor to Spock that Spock felt betrayed by when he abandoned his Vulcan upbringing. They could have kept most of the story elements with Sybok, and it would have been more believable. By TFF you could believe Spock didn't bring it up because it was years before and he had moved on. But a lost brother, no, that's much harder to swallow.

I did actually like Luckinbill in the role. I thought he did a good job, he was charismatic. And an unusual "villain". You couldn't help but like the guy. I think the fault was more in the lost brother thing, but I thought he did the best he could with what he was given.

It's a shame in a way. I too read that Nicholas Meyer was asked to help write the script but couldn't. I wonder what he could have done to fix the faults in the script. Would it have been a better plot.

Also I had read ILM's main unit was busy with the Lost Crusade. But I once read they had other units available though. ILM's worse unit would have still been better than Ferren's unit. But then, Paramount wanted to trim the budget as well, so I guess they decided to go lowest bidder. I continue to hope one day they fix that major flaw in the movie. The effects are so bad it's almost embarrassing. I'm actually a bit surprised the powers that be didn't see the film and say you can't release that, it looks awful.

Although not the best movie in the franchise, it's still fun to watch.

Yeah, when you get down to it, I still watch it. I haven't banished it to oblivion. I also liked that it was one of the few Star Trek films it seems that didn't put Earth at risk of being destroyed.

And I loved the forward observation room set. I liked the two scenes where Sybok shows McCoy's and Spock's pain.

I always wished Meyer incorporated the forward observation room in TUC somehow. I thought it was a great set.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I always thought Sybok would have been better if he had been an early mentor to Spock that Spock felt betrayed by when he abandoned his Vulcan upbringing. They could have kept most of the story elements with Sybok, and it would have been more believable. By TFF you could believe Spock didn't bring it up because it was years before and he had moved on. But a lost brother, no, that's much harder to swallow.

Yeah. IIRC Sybok was originally someone Spock knew from back in the day on Vulcan, but they kept running up against why would Spock betray Kirk to follow Sybok. They initially didn't want to make him Spock's brother, as they thought it was a hokey, cliched twist (they were right), but they couldn't deny that it was the easiest way to give Sybok a connection with Spock that would rival Kirk's.

I did actually like Luckinbill in the role. I thought he did a good job, he was charismatic. And an unusual "villain". You couldn't help but like the guy. I think the fault was more in the lost brother thing, but I thought he did the best he could with what he was given.

Yeah, he did a good job with what he had.

Also I had read ILM's main unit was busy with the Lost Crusade. But I once read they had other units available though. ILM's worse unit would have still been better than Ferren's unit.

Yeah. I believe that ILM's "A" unit was booked for Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and their "B" unit was busy with Ghostbusters 2. So STV would've gotten ILM's "C" unit. And of course they couldn't also get Connery because he had already taken the Henry Jones part in Last Crusade.

 

[jaime]

had Connery not been offered Indy Last Crusade (guaranteed hit, Spielberg) he probably would accepted Trek V as it was coming off the hugely successful TVH so looked like a hit in waiting (would've been interesting to see the foreign box office as hes bound to have made some difference)

nothing went right for shatner did it - no Connery, no ILM, Rock monster wouldn't work, writers strike, etc

Don’t forget the teamsters union stuff and the slashed tires or whatever it was.
It’s amazing how good the non fx visuals were when you consider everything. Trek didn’t have another crack at anything like nimbus iii till the Abrams films, and hadn’t done in the previous films....the Genesis planet is an obvious planet on a sound stage.

 

[XCV330]

had Connery not been offered Indy Last Crusade (guaranteed hit, Spielberg) he probably would accepted Trek V as it was coming off the hugely successful TVH so looked like a hit in waiting (would've been interesting to see the foreign box office as hes bound to have made some difference)

nothing went right for shatner did it - no Connery, no ILM, Rock monster wouldn't work, writers strike, etc

Connery's star power during that period can be overestimated.
A few years before during the Battle of the Bonds, his film Never Say Never Again did slightly worse in the box office against Octopussy, despite that one starring the slightly less iconic Roger Moore and well.. the embarrassment of telling people you were going to view Octopussy.

Connery might have given a more memorable performance as Sybok, or he might have realized the script was crap and slept-walked through it. He's done that before.

 

[Lance]

One thing I'll say to anyone who suggests Shatner "didn't get Star Trek", no, the reality is that STV feels like a great 'folk memory' of what TOS was generally like. Shatner knew the original series and he (consciously or otherwise) distilled many of its core elements perfectly: the sense of boundless possibility, arguably only otherwise seen in the first movie, the strong character dynamic in Kirk/Spock/McCoy, a giant faux God being that threatens the Enterprise, it's even the first movie since TMP (maybe since TOS itself) to remember that Captain's Yeoman is a thing. STV is possibly *the* single film that so captured the spirit of TOS as a weekly series. With a bigger budget it'd have been awesome. As it is, it feels like *maybe* a bad season three episode. But it's still got a lot going in its favor.

 

[Dukhat]

With a bigger budget it'd have been awesome.

I'd have to disagree. Great films can have low budgets or subpar special effects and still be great films. Conversely, a lousy film with a big budget and fantastic special effects is still a lousy film...with a big budget and fantastic special effects. (I'm talking to you, The Phantom Menace...)

What would a bigger budget have done for this film? More rockmen? New corridors that weren't just redresses of the Enteprise-D's? A Klingon ship that wasn't another reuse of the BoP? The Galactic Barrier being shinier? And alien fake-God who's more than just a floating head? None of these things enhance the plot of the movie or make the story any better.

 

[Vger23]

I'd have to disagree. Great films can have low budgets or subpar special effects and still be great films. Conversely, a lousy film with a big budget and fantastic special effects is still a lousy film...with a big budget and fantastic special effects. (I'm talking to you, The Phantom Menace...)

What would a bigger budget have done for this film? More rockmen? New corridors that weren't just redresses of the Enteprise-D's? A Klingon ship that wasn't another reuse of the BoP? The Galactic Barrier being shinier? And alien fake-God who's more than just a floating head? None of these things enhance the plot of the movie or make the story any better.

I think it's already pretty entertaining the way it is now, so from my perspective, an enhanced budget would have only made it better.

But, I absolutely agree for most people who have fundamental problems with the story, no amount of increased visual effects are going to really save it.

 

[Valenti]

As I recall Deforest Kelley said this same story off the cuff in a Tom Snyder interview with some of the rest of the cast, as an aside. He said wouldn't it be something if the crew meets God and he turns out to be the devil.

 

[CaptainMurdock]

I love Star Trek V.