No love for Star Trek V?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Valenti, May 31, 2018.

  1. Valenti

    Valenti Captain Captain

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    Saw it again and it really holds up well. The funny stuff is still funny. It's moving up my list of favorite Trek movies (now #2 behind TMP, believe it or not). The idea was really sound. It kind of reminded me of TAS with that evil god entity trapped on the planet looking to hijack the Enterprise but the Sybok character arc was refreshing and believable. Two glaring things though. His mind control was not convincing enough especially to just walk on to the bridge and take over. Where was security? Plus Kirk didn't have enough to do, so it was like a premise without a story. The Enterprise meets God. I think that's the logline. But I enjoyed the hell out of it, esp. the music.
     
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  2. Galileo7

    Galileo7 Commodore Commodore

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    My love for TFF is for the production design of these two sets:
    • 1701-A Bridge
    [​IMG]

    • 1701-A Hangar deck with two Shuttlecrafts
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sybok never once used mind control to persuade anyone to join him. He simply helped them deal with their personal pains. Everyone chose to join him on his quest of their own free will. Which is one of the reasons why this movie is deeply flawed.

    Glad you liked it though.
     
  4. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I figure it has to be mind rape/control. Why would just removing a old bad memory change someone into Sybok's willing thrall?

    Reject their Starfleet oath.
    Assist Sybok in stealing a Starship.
    Refuse orders from their commanding officer.

    And on a separate matter, on the flight deck why couldn't Spock shoot Sybok in a non-fatal place? Like in both knees.
     
  5. Valenti

    Valenti Captain Captain

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    I'm saying maybe he should have used a stronger form of mind control to work on the crew the way it did not to seem disingenuous, but I loved Shatner's daughter's bit. She was wonderful and God what a beauty.
     
  6. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Again, that's my point. It would have worked much better if it had been overt mind control. But the film implies that Sybok did nothing of the sort, and that everyone willingly helped him even though it goes against the points you made above.

    I don't think Shatner wanted Sybok to be some mind-controlling jerk; he wanted him to just be a 'false prophet' whose charisma makes others want to follow him, just like a television evangelist. But the idea was very different from the execution.

    But he used no mind control AT ALL.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  7. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I love Star Trek V. Fun, nostalgic, some great Big Three scenes, awesome soundtrack, real TOS-like story.
     
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  8. Pondwater

    Pondwater Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    TFF is my favorite TOS movie. I like it more than TWOK. Even if I’m going to burn at the stake for it. :p

    It sports my favorite line: “What does God need with a starship”.
     
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  9. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm pretty sure I hold the record for most TFF merchandise owned by any one man in all of fandom. I'll take any challengers :lol:

    2 Star Trek V t-shirts (1 modern, 1 from 1989)
    marshmallow dispenser
    Playmates toy assault phaser
    cast resin assault phaser prop
    Theatrical poster- original (signed by Shatner, Nichols, Takei)
    Teaser poster
    Pocketbooks novelization
    Pocketbooks audiobook (cassette)
    Lisabeth Shatner "Making of Star Trek V" book
    D.C. Comics adaptation
    Spock life size cardboard stand-up promoting TFF release on home video
    Starlog Magazine TFF movie special
    Jerry Goldsmith soundtrack
    Theater Promo Display (cardboard "V" with "Have They Gone Too Far" tagline, signed by Shatner)
    Skybox TFF trading cards
    VHS original release
    VHS widescreen release
    DVD release (part of a set)
    BR release (part of a set)
    Ertl TFF USS Enterprise
    Ertl TFF Bird of Prey

    I think the only major thing I'm missing is those molded (static) action figures they produced. I don't have any room for those bad boys, and frankly they are all over priced on eBay
     
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  10. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Seeing the effects of Sarek's Bendii Syndrome on the Enterprise-D crew, it is pretty easy to imagine that a Vulcan with Sybok's advanced mental disciplines and telepathic powers could easily be exerting some low-level manipulative effect on those who he melds with to "share pain" and even beyond.
     
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  11. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Yep. The problem is the movie is trying to have it both ways. They don't want to paint Sybok as an outright bad guy, employing mind-control, but they also need to have the likes of Sulu and Uhura mutiny against Kirk, so the movie has them choosing Sybok over Kirk because of . . . some therapeutic psychobabble?

    They were going for complexity, but ended up just muddying the waters.
     
  12. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think that the whole concept of Sybok and what "type" he was really got watered down as the writing process progressed.
     
  13. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    And I'll give them points for apparently trying to make him more than just another crazed megalomaniac, but, in this case, it just ended up being a bit of a muddle that has the added disadvantage of making Sulu and Uhura and Chekov look bad.

    Given that THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK was all about how these long-time friends will risk everything for each other, it was particularly jarring and hard to swallow that Kirk's loyal crew would turn against him while only being kinda, sorta brainwashed . . maybe. :)
     
  14. Damian

    Damian Captain Captain

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    I think that’s where JM Dillard’s novel is a big help. She gives more backstory to the various mind melds and that helps explain a little bit why each crew member turned to Sybok. I also think part of it was they realized he wasn’t a villain in the traditional sense. It’s hard to swallow, sure, but they realized he did not mean anyone any actual harm and wasn’t dangerous in the traditional sense.

    Of the films, TFF falls at number 13, yep, last place. I always say that doesn’t mean I hated it. I always thought it had great character moments, I thought Luckinbill was great in the role and the music score was one of the best of the series. I never got to see TMP in the theater so this was the first time I got to hear TMP theme in full theater sound and it was a thrill.

    I’ve always tried to focus on those positives when I watch the movie. But there were some glaring negatives for me. I’m pretty good at trying to suspend disbelief, but yes, the crew basically committing mutiny was hard to swallow. But if that were all, I’d accept it as part of ‘benign’ manipulation by Sybok. Also Sybok being a never before seen or heard of brother to Spock. That really wasn’t necessary IMO. He could easily have been a mentor to Spock when he was younger, a ‘big brother’ in that respect, but not necessarily a biological brother. Another problem is travelling to the center of the galaxy in what appears to be a few hours—too bad Voyager didn’t get the memo on that. That’s an area where the novel also gives some background to. And of course the special effects were the worse. Sometimes it made the original series special effects (the original effects from the 60’s) look good. I continue to hope, probably fruitlessly, that Paramount will fork over a few dollars to redo the effects to at least make it look like a proper Star Trek film. It could probably be done rather inexpensively at this point.

    And the ill placed humor. Some of it was simply ridiculous, like Scotty walking into a bulkhead. The only good humor IMO was by McCoy. The rest of it was an obvious attempt by the studio to try to cash in on TVH’s popularity, but there where it was more natural and fit the narrative, here it appeared to most people I talked to as forced and a blatant copycat of TVH, and much of it fell flat.
     
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  15. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But Sybok was of sound mind (or at least as sound as a galactic televangelist can be); Sarek wasn’t. I would think that if Sybok thought he was unduly influencing people because of some Vulcan malady he had, that he would try to curb that. Again, he didn’t seem like the type of guy who would use ANY form of mind control to his advantage, other than his charisma.
     
  16. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't mean that it was a form of illness that was causing his ability to influence. I just meant that it's clear that Vulcans have that capability
     
  17. Valenti

    Valenti Captain Captain

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    Yea, but his entry on to the bridge was all too easy.
     
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  18. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He had Sulu and Uhura escorting him at that point. I never thought much else of it.
     
  19. Valenti

    Valenti Captain Captain

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    That's it? Well of course, now I understand. Chekov was a terrible Captain.
     
  20. Galileo7

    Galileo7 Commodore Commodore

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    Another love for TFF is for the production design of these two props:
    • Assault Type-2 Phasers
    • Communicators [updated TOS versions]
    [​IMG]
     
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