The Force Awakens Vs The Last Jedi

[Blamo]

I suppose TFA. For me TLJ just has too many issues. Snoke died absurdly easily and wasn't remotely threatening. The writing for Poe, Finn and Rey was pretty poor. The side adventure at the casino was largely meaningless and absurdly over the top. The Empire is now headed by two complete idiots.

Luke was about the only good thing about that movie.

I find the new Disney movies are just lacking in...something. Emotional resonance I guess.

I do see what you mean. I've watched both and I enjoyed both, but I don't feel any real desire to ever watch them again. I feel no attachment to any of the new characters, something which even the prequels managed. While I did enjoy them more than the prequels, unlike the prequels they just feel empty.

 

[fireproof78]

I do see what you mean. I've watched both and I enjoyed both, but I don't feel any real desire to ever watch them again. I feel no attachment to any of the new characters, something which even the prequels managed. While I did enjoy them more than the prequels, unlike the prequels they just feel empty.

It's funny because I feel the opposite way regarding the PT. I've seen TFA twice in the theaters and at least three times on DVD. TLJ will be an addition soon enough. But, the moments of emotion still resonate with me.

It's interesting to see different experiences.

 

[Qonundrum]

I suppose TFA. For me TLJ just has too many issues. Snoke died absurdly easily and wasn't remotely threatening. The writing for Poe, Finn and Rey was pretty poor. The side adventure at the casino was largely meaningless and absurdly over the top. The Empire is now headed by two complete idiots.

Luke was about the only good thing about that movie.

Largely agreed. Luke was the best and the reasons were good./

Snoke's demise was even more pointless than the Emperor's in ROTJ.

The empire headed by Kylo Ren - it'll be interesting to see how the adventure pans out. "Evil destroys itself" or something like that, I suppose. Leia was supposed to have a big role in IX, so now it makes more narrative sense to fall back on the "evil destroys itself" trope. While they said they would never do CGI for Leia in IX, despite already having done so for her in "Rogue One", the technology is not rock solid yet. SW has always been a pioneer for effects development, which has strengths along with the obvious drawbacks, but CGI Leia never blinked and as such she looked like she was dazed or high or something - but at least she didn't walk at 6 frames per second. And as excellent as Tarkin otherwise was, the FPS problem for him was still jarring. Both are still impressive overall as they got his voice nearly perfect (Fisher did her own voice for CGI Leia), but the visuals are still off. Very close, though.

The casino stuff was okay but could have been a bit tighter. But that's where we get DJ.

I do see what you mean. I've watched both and I enjoyed both, but I don't feel any real desire to ever watch them again. I feel no attachment to any of the new characters, something which even the prequels managed. While I did enjoy them more than the prequels, unlike the prequels they just feel empty.

I dunno. Benecio Del Toro made DJ watchable and memorable. And had more to do than Phasma ever had, and all Phasma did was get thrown into the garbage as an apparent death along with homage to SW77 and then in TLJ apparently gets killed again. There's zero substance. How come they could write a better character in DJ? Or Luke? Or Poe? or Finn? Or Holdo? Or even Mary Sue Rey? Even Rose got better lines than Rey or Phasma and she only had one, which has become infamous for some but I had no qualms with it. Maybe RLM and Plinkett will explain one day.

Most of the characters, yeah, they could be better but I find them more memorable that Mace Windu's big purple lightsaber. I barely remember Mace except for his lightsaber, making me wish Samuel L Jackson had more involvement with the dialogue because, as everyone else has said over the years, the character dialogue - or the absolute lack of it - ruined the prequels. Everyone else takes "stick figure" to new forest preserves by comparison. The prequels' makers believing that all the big name legendary actors could overcome the non-dialogue littered in those three prequel flicks. If only Mace was a wildcard character like DJ, that alone would have helped by leaps and bounds.

 

[starsuperion]

I suppose TFA. For me TLJ just has too many issues. Snoke died absurdly easily and wasn't remotely threatening. The writing for Poe, Finn and Rey was pretty poor. The side adventure at the casino was largely meaningless and absurdly over the top. The Empire is now headed by two complete idiots.

Luke was about the only good thing about that movie.



I do see what you mean. I've watched both and I enjoyed both, but I don't feel any real desire to ever watch them again. I feel no attachment to any of the new characters, something which even the prequels managed. While I did enjoy them more than the prequels, unlike the prequels they just feel empty.

Rose Tico...uhhhhh...

 

[fireproof78]

Snoke's demise was even more pointless than the Emperor's in ROTJ.

I don't know if I agree with this. While I would have preferred more Snoke, and am not convinced he won't appear in 9, he wasn't really there like the Emperor was to pull Vader's strings. He was there to be Ben's fork in the road, the devil on his shoulder telling him to go one way, with Rey and Luke offering another path.

I find Ben's killing of Snoke and then turning on Rey to be far more of an interesting turn to Anakin's killing of Mace. For some reason the two stand out to me.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Canonically, Kylo Ren killing Snoke is the first time that we have observed a Sith apprentice killing his master and then rising to replace him. That's pretty significant for Star Wars. Indeed, that's a major part of the significance of what we saw there, and so, ergo, this aspect of TLJ was Kylo Ren's story, and in that story Snoke is secondary.

We can glean all sorts of things from Snoke's position of only secondary importance, not only in TLJ but also in TFA. One that I see as clear is that there will always be powerful bullies who demand obedience and inspire a following that they will proceed to corrupt. That's the beginning and end of what Snoke was to the story. Snoke really meant nothing more than that, and was otherwise interchangeable.

As far as what else was significant, obviously it was in Rey's disappointment that Ben was not going to join with her and try to make his way back to the good side after getting out from under Snoke.

So, there was quite a bit going on here that was in no way derivative of earlier films or repetitious.

edit - Looks like I was wrong. Wookieepedia says that Snoke was not Sith. Maybe Kylo Ren's actions are in part a reflection of his desire to be a better Vader?

 

[DonIago]

I would argue it's also a deconstruction of the original trilogy's theme of the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Heck, they're not at all subtle about Rey comparing Kylo's situation to Anakin's and claiming there's still good inside him.

And maybe there still is, but this film at least turned that on its head.

 

[fireproof78]

I would argue it's also a deconstruction of the original trilogy's theme of the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Heck, they're not at all subtle about Rey comparing Kylo's situation to Anakin's and claiming there's still good inside him.

And maybe there still is, but this film at least turned that on its head.

Which, in my opinion, is very good. I think it really builds upon the world that is previously established and expands upon it.

 

[DonIago]

More to the point, while having someone ultimately redeem themselves to some degree is great drama, the reality is a lot of people who commit atrocities are, in the end, entirely unrepentant about it.

Of course, we have yet to see the third film...

 

[fireproof78]

More to the point, while having someone ultimately redeem themselves to some degree is great drama, the reality is a lot of people who commit atrocities are, in the end, entirely unrepentant about it.

Of course, we have yet to see the third film...

Oh, we already know it's going to be terrible

 

[Tosk]

Canonically, Kylo Ren killing Snoke is the first time that we have observed a Sith apprentice killing his master and then rising to replace him.

Are they even Sith though? I don't read much of the EU stuff, but I though that Snoke and Kylo were dark side force users but not Sith.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Are they even Sith though? I don't read much of the EU stuff, but I though that Snoke and Kylo were dark side force users but not Sith.

Oh, good point. Looks like I was carelessly wrong. Wookieepedia says that the Sith order died with Sidious and Vader.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Snoke

Maybe Kylo Ren's actions are in part a reflection of his desire to be a better Vader?

 

[Tosk]

It's almost weird that Kylo isn't trying specifically to be Sith, considering how much he seems to idolize Vader. But then, I guess if he's conflicted and it's Snoke calling the shots, Kylo does as he's told. ...Except when it comes to "Don't kill Snoke", that one he disobeys.

 

[fireproof78]

It's almost weird that Kylo isn't trying specifically to be Sith, considering how much he seems to idolize Vader. But then, I guess if he's conflicted and it's Snoke calling the shots, Kylo does as he's told. ...Except when it comes to "Don't kill Snoke", that one he disobeys.

How much of the Sith teachings were lost with the Emperor dying though?

 

[DarKush]

I don't like either film, but I put TLJ over TFA. I thought TFA was way too much a copy of ANH for my taste. I also wasn't a fan of the new characters, the fate of the original trilogy heroes, etc. At least TLJ told a more original story, though I didn't like what it did with Luke or some other characters.

 

[Vger23]

TFA slightly edges TLJ, mostly because it's more fun and had the Han Solo element, but I loved them both.

Solo was lightyears (parsecs?) better than Rogue One, which was entirely unmemarabke and dour compared to the fun, exciting hi jinx of Solo.

 

[DigificWriter]

I thought I'd responded In the thread as well as voting in the poll, but I guess I hadn't.

For me, TLJ is hands-down the better film because Rian Johnson didn't try to use it to accomplish a personal agenda the way that Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan did with TFA.

 

[Set Harth]

Solo was lightyears (parsecs?) better than Rogue One, which was entirely unmemarabke and dour compared to the fun, exciting hi jinx of Solo.

Solo really needed a scene like the Star Destroyer collision scene in Rogue One.

 

[BillJ]

The Last Jedi.

to use it to accomplish a personal agenda the way that Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan did with TFA.

Sure I'm going to regret asking this: what personal agenda?

 

[Jedi_Master]

TFA slightly edges TLJ, mostly because it's more fun and had the Han Solo element, but I loved them both.

Solo was lightyears (parsecs?) better than Rogue One, which was entirely unmemarabke and dour compared to the fun, exciting hi jinx of Solo.

I love you.
Rogue One does not hold up to multiple views as it features a group of abused and broken characters slogging through a series of titanic struggles that end up killing all of them anyway. Ugh.