Why does anyone here need to prove anything to you?
Your argument lacks any resemblance to objectivity.
Who should become the next Doctor after Whittaker?
- Thread starter Jayson1
- Start date
Your argument lacks any resemblance to objectivity.
IQ tests and published papers are the only way to establish superiority--Oops, I meant legitimacy.
Lol. I am also only talking about one role in one tv show. The comment as to tearing down institutions was made in the post I was replying to
Since some listeners have at least understood what I am saying, even agreed with the small point I make, then I think maybe, just maybe, thee is some merit in some of the listeners not listenening? Hence your confusion about the tearing down of institutions. At no point have I said Doctor Who is a male Institution (it isn’t) and at no point have declared that male institutions are being torn down (they aren’t. Not even the bad ones sadly, that do stand in the way of progress. But that’s more a worldwide thing.)
What has been lost, and no matter how many times I ask you to show me otherwise, is a unique male role model that did some good in the world. That’s not even Male as in ‘for boys’ just an example of a good man, so we don’t have to only have soldiers and meatheads, or flawed stereotypes, or people who like hitting things, to say ‘this is a good man’. That’s all really. Touch wood some more will come along.
Anyway, I really am bowing out this time. I, like most sane people, look forward to seeing Jodie in the role, and have no problem with any woman in the role (I just question it a little, as a choice, based on the position of the show here, and the archetypes used in the narratives construction within the stories sometimes.)
It’s all getting heated and full of thinly veiled insults, and that’s just...disheartening and time consuming. Go forward in all your beliefs etc.
It’s all getting heated and full of thinly veiled insults, and that’s just...disheartening and time consuming. Go forward in all your beliefs etc.
We shall.
And I still think Craig Ferguson would make a great Doctor.
Eve Myles might not be a bad choice either...
If not being a soldier, meathead, flawed stereotype and not liking hitting things is the rubric....
Ray Palmer comes to mind. From Legends of Tomorrow.
Barry Allen, The Flash.
Cisco Ramon, The Flash.
Winn on Supergirl.
Steel guy whose name I can't remember on Legends.
Rip Hunter on Legends.
J'onn J'onzz on Supergirl.
Bill Irwin's character on Legion. (But, this might be because I adore Bill Irwin and I think he's brilliant in everything he does.)
Harrison Wells on The Flash.
Joe West on the Flash.
Wally West, the Flash and Legends.
Those are male character who come to mind who aren't soldiers, meatheads, flawed stereotypes and don't like hitting things.
And that's just on one network. Some on the same show.
Once I have a chance to see it, I suspect I would add Black Lightning to that list.
But, again, I think the question is flawed. Why can't boys look up to women?
Supergirl is GREAT.
Sara Lance is FANTASTIC.
Caitlin Snow... Ok, she's pretty good.
Edited to add... it was harder coming up with the same list in the same sample of shows for female characters.
Some of the women DO like to punch: like Gypsy on The Flash
Iris is coming into her own this season, but, that required they all but ignore her own career ambitions.
Supergirl's sister...a well educated scientist sorta just gets played as a Kick Ass Woman stereotype.
The sister's girlfriend was interesting... sad they wrote the character out.
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I'm so glad to hear you say you're looking forward to her as the new Doctor! I'd still love to hear her hiring's not a bad idea, lol. You have said the Doctor should remain male, so just using different words doesn't make it a different point, right?
I feel you'r confusing sexism with toxic masculinity. There's no such thing as sexism towards men, to have that you'd need society to be controlled by women and repressing men, which has just never happened. All you're saying is about how men are degraded by other men for being anything like a woman, that's sexism, against women still, lol.
I stand by my thoughts about male institutions, I mean like anything where men feel women have no place and should just keep out of, and should be men-only and off-limits, those need to be torn down and rebuilt equally, which means for a while you'll need women leadership to balance it out, right?
I feel sad you feel you want to leave, there are so many opportunities to learn. Are you feeling threatened? My intention was not to do so, just to show you my perspective and how I disagree, that doesn't mean I don't want you with us.
I'm still wondering what's so terribly wrong with a role model for boys who shows them women are equals?
I feel you'r confusing sexism with toxic masculinity. There's no such thing as sexism towards men, to have that you'd need society to be controlled by women and repressing men, which has just never happened. All you're saying is about how men are degraded by other men for being anything like a woman, that's sexism, against women still, lol.
I stand by my thoughts about male institutions, I mean like anything where men feel women have no place and should just keep out of, and should be men-only and off-limits, those need to be torn down and rebuilt equally, which means for a while you'll need women leadership to balance it out, right?
I feel sad you feel you want to leave, there are so many opportunities to learn. Are you feeling threatened? My intention was not to do so, just to show you my perspective and how I disagree, that doesn't mean I don't want you with us.
I'm still wondering what's so terribly wrong with a role model for boys who shows them women are equals?
Well said, funny side anecdote tho, my friend I reached out to is a Grad student. She's of Asian descent. I told her what I was doing. She thought it ridiculous anyone who knows me as she did, could think I'm sexist. (full disclosure we never had a romantic relationship just good friends) She thinks I'm crazy for engaging in such nonsense. She is a huge Whovian fan, or was. I asked her what she thought of the new female Doctor, her reply actually surprised me.
She said that she hasn't really followed the show since series 7. That while it doesn't bother her the gender change, she isn't really interested in seeing it.
Tho she did add a caveat...
She said that if they brought Tenant Back, she'd watch it again, because apparently he's hot, and she was all into the will they or won't they get together thing that was played out with Rose.
I found that funny..seems allot of my female friends have the same thinking when it comes to the Tenant years.
My sister also loves David Tenant, lol she tried to get me to watch (but I didn't like her episode choice, probably a bad pick on her part).
All that doesn't really make a difference though, you're not talking about everyone's favorite Doctor, and no one says my or your or her favorite has to be any special Doctor, but what there's issue with is objection to a woman being cast as the Doctor because she's a woman, and saying only men should ever be in her role.
I mean, if you feel fine a woman is cast in the role of the Doctor, wonderful! What're we talking about then? If you feel upset and you feel only men should play the role, then you're sexist, right? I mean, I know people can change their minds, but there was definite hostility towards women as I was reading through here, and a lot of "boys club" type posts, which I feel are just so very toxic and unfortunate. I don't understand what your friend has to do with anything here?
All that doesn't really make a difference though, you're not talking about everyone's favorite Doctor, and no one says my or your or her favorite has to be any special Doctor, but what there's issue with is objection to a woman being cast as the Doctor because she's a woman, and saying only men should ever be in her role.
I mean, if you feel fine a woman is cast in the role of the Doctor, wonderful! What're we talking about then? If you feel upset and you feel only men should play the role, then you're sexist, right? I mean, I know people can change their minds, but there was definite hostility towards women as I was reading through here, and a lot of "boys club" type posts, which I feel are just so very toxic and unfortunate. I don't understand what your friend has to do with anything here?
Oddly, in a Who forum, you forgot Gwen Cooper...
Of course, she hasn’t been reading your posts here.
Edited to add: and it’s also creepy you have to bring up your lack of romantic relationship with your friend. As if guys can’t just be friends with women.
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Sigh. Do I go with godfather or Dick Tracy...Tracy it is.
Let’s dance, once again around the dance floor....
None of those are British, nominally family friendly shows, and all are on premium paid Tv channels. Therefore not remotely comparable.
Like I said, adult, American fans, will have a different relationship to the character.....
One more over ther and I really am done.
Oh I’m so sorry I’m not British! Please forgive me! I didn’t realize it had to be SOOO narrow? Why didn’t you include it in your post? Would you like to continue to move the goal posts?
Seriously? I personally appreciate that you have gone to the effort to explain your reactions and reasoning. It is always more complicated than what makes for any easy counter argument. Quite often someone's thoughts and understanding are lumped into a profile that becomes a convenient excuse to label them and hit them with a rehearsed counter argument. Much harder to listen or see the complexity, much easier to call someone sexist.
I don't know for sure about pandering, I suspect it is there but it is hard to know when something is pandering and when something is just simply organic timing! If we go by the Master/Missy being a timelord with different regenerated genders, I think it worked. I personally liked both. So have that as a guide.
By the way I watch Doctor Phil, lol. He says the greatest role model to a boy is the male parent. Of course not every family has a traditional set up of two parents, let alone one of each gender. However I can identify with that concept. That many boys (not all) do gravitate to wanting a male role model. As a woman I still look to my mother.
Let's hope the new Doctor is less scatty because you're right, it becomes very hard to even understand the dialogue sometimes.
I feel for you Marynator because I wish I could imbue you with some of the story background, character background and just history of the show. You would meet a character called the Master! Also a Time Lord - kind of wicked. But he became 'Missy' (get it??). It works. Women can be companions and good ones. They can be Time Lords too.
...and The Doctor.
I just have to respond to someone above, Kor I think. Talking about a kid being the Doctor at some stage. I so hope not! That is ageist of me. I get it. I remember Doogie Howser and shows can be written for and around kids schooling adults etc. But I put my hand up to not ever wanting to see a precocious brat lording it around the universe. 
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