Spock/Burnham

[ISS-Magnum]

How is this not obvious?

Spock and Michael are the same person. Oh, yes, they were different people before the war. But after the (insert Trek technobabble here), they became one. Like Ash and Voq. Like Tuvix. Starting with the TOS and all the way to the Kelvinverse it was always Michael inside Spock's body.

Now you know the truth, you can't unsee this, and you must live with it somehow.

 

[nightwind1]

Nobody aside from CBS considers TAS canon.

I do.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Ownership means nothing. Say I own stocks in Toyota, does that mean I make Toyota cars? I would make a very strong bet the suits at CBS know basically nothing about Star Trek beyond the money and Kirk and Spock and the Delta.
The people that make Star Trek are the writers, they're the people that literally craft Star Trek with their minds and hands. If they don't consider something canon, it's not actually canon.
CBS saying something is canon or not means jack shit, who are you going to trust to know what is actually part of the story, Some random suit counting their money in a boardroom like Leslie Moonves or Gene Roddenberry, Brannon Braga, Rick Berman etc?

Nobody aside from CBS considers TAS canon.

CBS owns the license so CBS gets to say what trek is and isn't just like Disney can now say what Star wars is and what it isn't. That's just business. If CBS decided that TAS wasn't canon after all, I'm sure that would be ok right. Would the 'suits' know what they were doing then?

So if the writers decide what is canon, does that mean that the Discovery writers can decide that actually TOS isn't canon because they want to blow up the Enterprise in the first episode of Discovery season 2? Or could they blow up the enterprise only for her to be rebuilt as an excelsior class ship and redo TOS? Would that become canon? This is why CBS has to have creative control over the franchise, so writers can do what they want within reason but not totally fuck it up by deciding to do things like the examples i gave. The writers work for CBS and it is ultimately their directives that they have to follow.

Considering how inconsistent Roddenberry was, and the fact that Berman and braga ran the franchise into the ground, i would not trust them if they told me rain was wet.

 

[Dijeirusan]

I seriously doubt that will have any impact on the season two storyline.

The books are canon. They referenced the first one in the show last week.

I think the look Sarek and Burnham gave each other was golden. They were like "oh shit!"

 

[Dijeirusan]

I do.

I do too. It's referenced in DIS too.

 

[Tallguy]

One more time:

Spock never mentioned pon farr until he had to. Spock never mentioned that he had a fiancee/wife. Spock never mentioned that his father was the Vulcan ambassador. Spock never mentioned that he had a brother. Spock never mentioned that his katra had to be returned to Vulcan if he died . . .

But somehow it defies logic and canon that he never mentioned his foster sister?

Spock has never been forthcoming about his family and personal life. In this respect, DISCO is 100% consistent with canon.

It's not even just Spock. Who in TOS mentions their family? Is Uhura particularly withdrawn? Does she have personal issues and fierce privacy? Or is the truth that we didn't spend that much time with these characters and then only in super-crises situations?

 

[XCV330]

I do too. It's referenced in DIS too.

So do I and so does Paramount.

 

[Greg Cox]

I don't remember the implied rape of her mother though (basically Burnham said that the Klingons "took longer" to kill her mother - which implied rape to me.) But I gave the book to my daughter so can't recheck that part.

I don't recall an implied rape in the book, just the bit about how little Michael persuaded her parents to put off a planned trip to Mars for three days because she wanted to observe some sort of astronomical event.

Oops!

 

[Tallguy]

Nobody aside from CBS considers TAS canon.

And the people that made Enterprise. And TNG. And Remastered. And, obviously, Discovery.

And me.

 

[Greg Cox]

Yes, I don't think many people at my work know I have a brother and If I mention him no-one is going to wonder where my secret brother suddenly came from.

Good point. I have no idea how many siblings my various colleague and co-workers have, even though I may have some of them for decades.

I will go on record here to state that I have no idea if Dave Mack has any foster sisters he's never mentioned.

 

[The Wormhole]

several of the movies are not canon, especially Star Trek V.

"Several of the movies?" TFF was the only one Roddenberry tried saying wasn't canon, and quite honestly, I more than content to ignore that little edict. TFF may not be the greatest movie, but it's just as canon as all the rest.

Nobody aside from CBS considers TAS canon.

Speak for yourself. I have no problem accepting TAS as part of my canon, and besides, many of the later shows even referenced TAS quite often, and even TOS-R depicted Shir-Kahr or whatever Vulcan's capital city is called exactly as we saw it in TAS.

CBS saying something is canon or not means jack shit, who are you going to trust to know what is actually part of the story, Some random suit counting their money in a boardroom like Leslie Moonves or Gene Roddenberry, Brannon Braga, Rick Berman etc?

I remember a time when Trek fandom were claiming Rick Berman and Brannon Braga were the ones who didn't know Star Trek. As for Gene Roddenberry, by the later years in his life he was randomly declaring things non-canon on a whim he was mentally ill and alcoholic. Is this really the kind of guy we're considering to be an authority on the franchise? And no, I don't care if he was the creator, it was others who did the actual heavy lifting to develop his ideas and put them on the screen. When people talk about Gene's Vision for Star Trek, it should be in reference to Gene Coon, not Roddenberry.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

"

I remember a time when Trek fandom were claiming Rick Berman and Brannon Braga were the ones who didn't know Star Trek.

Good times. What Halcyon days they were.

 

[Spot261]

Nobody aside from CBS considers TAS canon.

Yes they do

 

[Donker]

CBS owns the license so CBS gets to say what trek is and isn't just like Disney can now say what Star wars is and what it isn't. That's just business.

No it isn't. That isn't how REALITY works.

CBS DOES NOT MAKE STAR TREK. CBS DOES NOT WRITE STAR TREK. They're basically just bankers. All they do is provide funding and enforce the license. That's it. The people who decide canon are the WRITERS OF THE SHOW. These are the people actually making the show. They're the ones that actually craft the story, characters, setting. Do you consider Allen & Unwin the decider of canon for Middle Earth or JRR's Tolkien? If Allen & Unwin, oh boy, Shadow of Mordor is canon, War in the North is Canon, Lord of the Rings Online is canon.

Yes they do

People with the massive cognitive dissonance to not accept that TAS has been heavily retconned out of existence. Because elements of TAS make it into other Star Trek shows, doesn't make TAS canon. They were just testing out ideas that didn't make it into TOS and took the ideas from TAS that they liked and dropped the 95% that didn't.

TNG takes elements of TAS and presents them as new, this is because, The writers do not consider TAS canon.

So if the writers decide what is canon, does that mean that the Discovery writers can decide that actually TOS isn't canon because they want to blow up the Enterprise in the first episode of Discovery season 2? Or could they blow up the enterprise only for her to be rebuilt as an excelsior class ship and redo TOS? Would that become canon?

It would make them shitty hack writers but it would be canon. It would completely BREAK canon but it would still be canon.

Considering how inconsistent Roddenberry was, and the fact that Berman and braga ran the franchise into the ground, i would not trust them if they told me rain was wet.

Yeah trust the hacks suits at CBS who have constantly tried to turn Trek into Star Wars and constantly forced in the worst elements of Trek over the actual creator, show runners and writers of Star Trek. Great choice. Btw, Leslie Moonves, the guy that says TAS is canon, actually hates Star Trek and Sci-Fi in general.

If Sybok is canon, explain why he is never seen again, never shown in any flash backs, never mentioned by Sarek when talking about his family, never mentioned by Spock when talking about his family, Never mentioned by Amanda when talking about her family.

Sybok isn't canon, he's been retconned out of existence.

 

[Spot261]

No it isn't. That isn't how REALITY works.

Yes it is

 

[Donker]

Yes it is

If you're bootlicker to corporations and not actually accept what are obviously the views workers and creators of the franchise.
Nobody in their right minds would consider Lord of the Rings Online or Shadow of Mordor canon, but I guess it 100% is because everything crapped out by the corporations are canon. Lego Lord of the RIngs? Canon. There obviously was little lego running around in middle earth as well.

 

[Nyotarules]

If Sybok is canon, explain why he is never seen again, never shown in any flash backs, never mentioned by Sarek when talking about his family, never mentioned by Spock when talking about his family, Never mentioned by Amanda when talking about her family.

1.Because he is dead
2. What flashbacks?
3. Sarek was a stubborn old sehlat, he never mentioned Michael either
4. Spock never talks about his family, unless forced to
5. Amanda died before Sybok came on the screen

 

[Spot261]

If you're bootlicker to corporations and not actually accept what are obviously the views workers and creators of the franchise.
Nobody in their right minds would consider Lord of the Rings Online or Shadow of Mordor canon, but I guess it 100% is because everything crapped out by the corporations are canon. Lego Lord of the RIngs? Canon. There obviously was little lego running around in middle earth as well.

Still how it works

 

[Donker]

No it isn't.

 

[Spot261]

Yes it is, they own the rights to make that call.

It isn't a debate.