Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x15 - "Will You Take My Hand?"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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In the MU, did Khan and his minions - the augments - attempt to guide mankind into a world of peace, understanding, and freedom, only to be savagely overthrown?
No, in the MU They were a band of space minstrels singing future showtunes.
Depends on where you see the divergence. I took it to be the point at First Contact where Cochrane killed those invading Vulcans.
Later in that same episode we hear (in a discussion between MU's Phlox and Hoshi) that there are differences in Earth's classical literature that go back centuries before First Contact.
3/10. An awful, rushed finale. The payoff to the Mirror Emperor plot was completely stupid (Wait, all of a sudden she's NOT a genocidal maniac? Really? She's probably killed billions, but she'll balk because... Burnham? Completely unearned, terribly plotted and even more terribly written. And, no lie, Michelle Yeoh still almost saves it with a sterling performance. Ash Tyler goes off with L'rell even though he has no place in Klingon society (they better have eaten him already, honestly), wasting a character that had potential, even if the writing never delivered on it in any meaningful way.
And Starfleet approved genocide, but because they all felt bad and changed their minds, there are apparently no consequences for anybody, including Burnham, who should still be in prison as a mutineer. Realizing you were wrong doesn't get you off the hook for criminal activity. And she gets a pardon... why? Not being willing to commit planetary genocide is a pretty low bar. I've never been willing to commit planetary genocide, and I'd argue against it if you tried to tell me to do it. So does that mean I'm free to speed, do drugs and kill individual people every day for the rest of my life? Or do I have to wait for all of you to get desperate and talk you back to sanity before I get that perk?
I didn't at all mind Burnham's overall moralizing, on the other hand. It was obvious where this was specifically going after last week, and the general strokes were clear as early as about week 4. But Michael Burnham remains a terribly uncompelling character. She makes me want to turn the show off. Make this show about literally anybody else on it (or even better, everybody else on it) and it would improve by an order of magnitude. Hell, the biggest problem on this show is that the two best characters are the guest star captains!
Could care less about the Enterprise cameo. It was obvious pandering, poorly handled and set up nothing that would make me want to come back. This really felt much, much more like a series finale jumping off point for a show that was cancelled unexpectedly than it did a season finale for a show planning more down the road.
Easily the worst episode of the season. Not enough to keep me from seeing what they do with season 2, but if it's just an endless parade of poorly written Trek tropes, like this terrible finale, I'm out with a quickness.
And Starfleet approved genocide, but because they all felt bad and changed their minds, there are apparently no consequences for anybody, including Burnham, who should still be in prison as a mutineer. Realizing you were wrong doesn't get you off the hook for criminal activity. And she gets a pardon... why? Not being willing to commit planetary genocide is a pretty low bar. I've never been willing to commit planetary genocide, and I'd argue against it if you tried to tell me to do it. So does that mean I'm free to speed, do drugs and kill individual people every day for the rest of my life? Or do I have to wait for all of you to get desperate and talk you back to sanity before I get that perk?
I didn't at all mind Burnham's overall moralizing, on the other hand. It was obvious where this was specifically going after last week, and the general strokes were clear as early as about week 4. But Michael Burnham remains a terribly uncompelling character. She makes me want to turn the show off. Make this show about literally anybody else on it (or even better, everybody else on it) and it would improve by an order of magnitude. Hell, the biggest problem on this show is that the two best characters are the guest star captains!
Could care less about the Enterprise cameo. It was obvious pandering, poorly handled and set up nothing that would make me want to come back. This really felt much, much more like a series finale jumping off point for a show that was cancelled unexpectedly than it did a season finale for a show planning more down the road.
Easily the worst episode of the season. Not enough to keep me from seeing what they do with season 2, but if it's just an endless parade of poorly written Trek tropes, like this terrible finale, I'm out with a quickness.
You don't think the DSC crew will blame Regulorca for the actions of his mirror counterpart (unrealistic though that may be)? There's got to be some resentment just bubbling below the surface of at least some of them.
To say nothing about what the families of the USS Buran's crew would think if they ever met Regulorca - since it seems clear, now, that MU Lorca deliberately destroyed the ship so no one would find out he wasn't the Lorca he claimed to be.
Come to think of it, this whole season would have flowed much better if they would have just skipped the mirror universe part. Lorca would have been just regular scarred ends-justify-means asshole, and the genocidal plan seen in this episode would have been his, and the final confrontation would have been between him and Burnham.
Hmmm. That's not how I interpreted it at all. But, now I'm not sure!
Lorca wasn’t that bad to them. It wasn’t like he was abusing them on a daily basis.
No, but he was a manipulative bastard who turned out to be a murderous dictator. Probably every word he ever said to the crew was a lie (especially the rousing "polite scientists" speech). Everyone on the ship knows that by now.
If Regulorca ever turns up, I don't expect anyone on Discovery to like him very much. Even if he's genuinely upset by his counterpart's actions.
Eh, Mike will give us a feel good speech and e'erything will be a-ok
The Federation constantly skirts close to crossing the line when it comes to genocide. I remember there being a virus which would destroy the Borg from TNG and the disease introduced into the Changelings by Section 31 in DS9. Each time, there is a person of principle who stands up and course corrects the Federation.
I'll put this bluntly. The showrunners will look stupid if they set up this situation but then not have Spock!
Pre-Federation, Archer outright destroyed a civilization through willful neglect because of his understanding of what eventually would be the prime directive.
Everyone wants to lunch with the Klingon spy who murdered Dr. Culber, so I'm not sure it's possible to alienate the big-hearted Federation folk of the Discovery universe.
Some visual comparisons. Long Beach City hall as seen in Star Trek (2009)
And the CG version in Discovery, with a non-blurry look at those baby blue "Cage"ish uniforms:
EDIT: The ST'09 version is clearly in San Francisco (the Golden Gate bridge is visible from the balcony above) and the DSC version is in Paris, as the Eiffel Tower is visible. Me thinks the CG boys got a bit confused. But at least this time it's just 9000km and not 100AU
And the CG version in Discovery, with a non-blurry look at those baby blue "Cage"ish uniforms:
EDIT: The ST'09 version is clearly in San Francisco (the Golden Gate bridge is visible from the balcony above) and the DSC version is in Paris, as the Eiffel Tower is visible. Me thinks the CG boys got a bit confused. But at least this time it's just 9000km and not 100AU
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