Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x15 - "Will You Take My Hand?"

[Lapis Exilis]

For this lifelong Trekkie, the opening season of Discovery was a wild, crazy, risk-taking, uneven, gloriously entertaining mess. In short, more than I ever could have hoped for. Critique to your heart's desire (for, as with all first seasons except TOS [all hail the brilliance of 1966 Season 1], it has plenty to critique), but let's hear it for not playing it safe with one of the most valuable franchises on earth!

"Risk is what this ship is about! That's why we're aboard her!"

LL&P, y'all.

 

[dahj]

I don't see why they can't use Quinto if they need to. He's not exclusively a movie actor. He did several seasons of American Horror Story, and before that 24 and, of course, Heroes. Seriously, why the hell not?

You think we don't have enough "Which Timeline?" threads?

 

[CorporalClegg]

You think we don't have enough "Which Timeline?" threads?

Only if Deanna is sober.

 

[Q2UnME]

I don't see why they can't use Quinto if they need to. He's not exclusively a movie actor. He did several seasons of American Horror Story, and before that 24 and, of course, Heroes. Seriously, why the hell not?

I would suspect his asking price would be far greater than their budget could adsorb, especially for what will amount to a 'bit part'.

 

[SJGardner]

Without reading anything, here is how it goes for me:

The episode continued the DSC trend of starting slow and ending big. The first half of the episode was more of a buildup to our finale than anything else. It was a given that Georgiou would lie about the nature of the mission, so it was natural that the episode would either end with her succeeding and a reset button, or her being thwarted. The solution of giving L'Rell the Klingons' very own nuclear football genuinely surprised me, but I was glad that most of the houses decided not to take their chances in case the detonator was real. And it set up the scene for more trouble later, as did letting Georgiou go.

Perhaps it was better this way, we knew the war would end today anyway, so we had a chance to concentrate on the character moments instead that felt much better to me than in the previous few episodes. Tilly was adorable from start to finish (and the fanboy in me still wants to punch Georgiou in the face for that comment about her hair). Ash and Michael's farewell was surprisingly genuine and emotional, I didn't expect it to touch me but it did, as did Michael's reunion with her parents.

As for the ending, HOLY CRAP. I was so lost in all the details I actually had to rewind Michael's entire speech and start again. I loved the emblems for the Federation founding members and the acronym for Fédération des Planètes Unies on the great seal (we're in Paris, baby), the blurred background figures clad in grey uniforms resembling TOS Cadet uniforms, and, in an earlier scene, what appeared to be the Earth Spacedock from the TOS Movies being built in Earth orbit. And of course, the emotional little touches, Burnham being reinstated, Paul holding Hugh's posthumous Medal of Honor, ENSIGN SYLVIA TILLY, and of course, the Enterprise. THE. ENTERPRISE. And the TOS theme at the ending credits. My hand's still shaking and I can't believe I have to wait for a year to see more of this.

 

[matthunter]

I have been looking for people mentioning a major revelation made in this episode about Burnham. For such a central figure, this event is not being discussed. She witnessed the brutal slaying of her family by her Klingon raiders. She was psychologically damaged by this event, having PTSD. This pivotal event is brought up in the episode and is offered as one of the reasons she has conflicted feelings for Tyler/Voq. Yet, no one mentions it. Is this because how it was handled by the writers?

Well, it's not a major revelation - we've known this about her since the first episode. Though it was revisited in more detail here - that she blames herself for delaying a trip that would have meant they weren't home when the Klingons came. It was also a neat twist - when she ran out on Ash playing gambling games with the Klingons, I figured it was because she hated to see him so naturally fitting back into his Klingon persona, but it was actually because it sparked her childhood memories.

 

[eschaton]

I would respectfully disagree. Not about Jones, he's great - but about his development by the writers.

In the episode where Lorca was abducted by Klingons, Saru tried to figure out how to be a good captain. Essentially, he researched it on Wikipedia. He quickly realized that was not the way to figure it out, that leadership can't be learned from a chart. He struggled.

But by the time of the 13th episode, with Lorca gone and then revealed, and the need to attack a superior foe foremost, Saru stepped up big time. He inspired his crew to look for a better solution, denying the 'no-win scenario.' He was strong and assertive, a good leader. During the battle, he was quick to understand what was happening and quickly guide his bridge crew, motivating them to faster, better action without being harsh or clumsy. And when it came time to fire, the normally polite and timid Kelpian had no compunctions about yelling 'FIRE!' (Okay, that last is Jones, not necessarily the writers.) I loved that!

He has had a *little* development, which I think is a good thing. He needs a lot more.

I would add that throughout at lot of the discussion in this thread, Saru has been overlooked as well. We can't focus just on the humans, people!!

I agree with this, but how much of this is actually a result of the writers? I was always under the impression that when it comes to things like vocal tone and body positioning (aside from the most obvious screen direction like "____ punches ___") it was up to the director and the actor to figure out the performance.

 

[PhotoBoy]

That was a pretty good finale, I think they managed to come up with a fairly plausible means to nullify the war. I do think they have a problem with writing out all the most interesting characters (Lorca, Ash, Mirror Georgiou) which makes next season a bit less enticing, but the cliffhanger at least has done enough to ensure I’m pretty excited about it.

Oh and it seems Burnham’s origin story was borrowed from Batman, what with them both blaming themselves for begging their parents to watch a play/supernova which lead to their deaths.

I didn’t care much for the award ceremony scene, of all the crew who could be selected to speak I didn’t think it was very plausible it would be Burnham and her speech felt like TNG season 1 levels of sanctimonious piety.

I was kind of hoping the cliffhanger would be a reveal that the “new” Discovery captain would be Prime Lorca, it will be interesting to see who it turns out to be. I was very happy with the Constitution redesign, I’ve not read the thread yet to see if the pitchforks are out but it seemed to be a very happy mix of the classic look mixed with the more metallic look of Discovery ships.

 

[eschaton]

I didn’t care much for the award ceremony scene, of all the crew who could be selected to speak I didn’t think it was very plausible it would be Burnham and her speech felt like TNG season 1 levels of sanctimonious piety.

I know what you mean. Another issue with the episode structurally was the choice to have Burnham, not Saru, tell Admiral Cornwell they weren't going along with the plan by MU Georgiou to blow up Qo'noS. I mean, Saru is the commanding officer, he can tell her that the crew will not do a heinous act. But Burnham cannot. That was such an usurpation of Saru's authority in the chain of command I felt a little embarrassed for Saru watching it.

 

[Aralon56]

I was going to give this episode a 6 but then goddammit they had to tease us with a certain registration, then bang the ENTERPRISE is there! And now I'm buzzing and the episode is a 10

 

[CorporalClegg]

I know what you mean. Another issue with the episode structurally was the choice to have Burnham, not Saru, tell Admiral Cornwell they weren't going along with the plan by MU Georgiou to blow up Qo'noS. I mean, Saru is the commanding officer, he can tell her that the crew will not do a heinous act. But Burnham cannot. That was such an usurpation of Saru's authority in the chain of command I felt a little embarrassed for Saru watching it.

Actually, I think that was done intentionally. Standing up to a flag officer like that is almost always a career ender. Micheal had nothing to lose at that point and Saru had everything.

 

[137th Gebirg]

You think we don't have enough "Which Timeline?" threads?

Hadn't thought of that. Well, sure, why not? This board has proven over and over again that, if Trek fans don't have something controversial to debate, they'll invent it. And yes, I suspect that will make some folks' heads explode.

I would suspect his asking price would be far greater than their budget could adsorb, especially for what will amount to a 'bit part'.

Perhaps. If it leads to some cross-pollination between TV and movie fans, it might be a lucrative subscriber booster. That is, as opposed to ratings booster, since we don't really know how viewership rating metrics are measured with this streaming service.

That brings to mind an interesting question: Now that the season is done, has CBS released viewership stats? Just curious how successful it was as a series so far, despite the fact that it has already been technically renewed for a second season.

 

[JD]

I had the same thought about Prime Lorca, but since he switched places with Mirror Lorca that mean's he's probably in the MU somewhere, and at this point it would probably be hard for one guy by himself to make it back.

 

[Vger23]

I agree with this, but how much of this is actually a result of the writers? I was always under the impression that when it comes to things like vocal tone and body positioning (aside from the most obvious screen direction like "____ punches ___") it was up to the director and the actor to figure out the performance.

Many cases in Trek history have the actor elevating stuff that would otherwise be mediocre or crap.

Look at Sir Patrick on TNG. The man singlehandedly brought gravitas and credibility to some absolute dog shit.

It's one of the fun things about movies and TV...they're such a "collaborative" art form.

 

[Vger23]

I had the same thought about Prime Lorca, but since he switched places with Mirror Lorca that mean's he's probably in the MU somewhere, and at this point it would probably be hard for one guy by himself to make it back.

I could envision a little 2-episode arc where PULorca somehow gets a distress signal to our universe...and a rescue mission is mounted.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I could envision a little 2-episode arc where PULorca somehow gets a distress signal to our universe...and a rescue mission is mounted.

You think the Discovery crew would even bother to undertake that mission?

After all they've been through, they may not be in too much of a hurry to have Lorca back - ANY Lorca.

Even though it is entirely possible (and, IMHO, very likely) that Regulorca would be shocked and disgusted at his counterpart's actions, I would expect the rest of the crew to be just a bit wary of ever again having anything to do with somebody named Gabriel Lorca.

And speaking of counterparts:

I haven't seen this episode yet, but are you seriously telling me that THEY LET THE EMPRESS GO? What's to prevent her from masquerading as her own counterpart? Does Starfleet not know of the risk of that happening?

I mean, we already know that the real Philippa Georgiou was one of the most decorated captains in Starfleet. And it would be totally within MU Georgiou's wheelhouse to try and pass herself off as her own prime universe version. So what's Starfleet going to do about that?

 

[CorporalClegg]

Many cases in Trek history have the actor elevating stuff that would otherwise be mediocre or crap.

Look at Sir Patrick on TNG. The man singlehandedly brought gravitas and credibility to some absolute dog shit.

It's one of the fun things about movies and TV...they're such a "collaborative" art form.

Yup. And I think that's why so many people gravitated towards Lorca. Because I don't think he was really that great of a character in and of himself. But Isaacs is the same once-in-a-generation talent that Pat is.

 

[corndog]

Philippa Georgiou Khan?

 

[eschaton]

Yup. And I think that's why so many people gravitated towards Lorca. Because I don't think he was really that great of a character in and of himself. But Isaacs is the same once-in-a-generation talent that Pat is.

I think that's part of the reason why Lorca's turn in episode 13 seemed like such a shock to people. Similar to how Mark Alaimo played Dukat, Issacs was given scripting that was intended to make him a pure shitheel and transformed him into a character who sincerely believed he was the hero of the story. But generally in Trek the writers don't actually get to see how their episodes end up being directed/acted until very late in the process. So perhaps the writers room had the idea that Lorca was much more of a shifty, shitty character than Isaacs actually portrayed him to be.

 

[CorporalClegg]

She Khan do anything better than you.