Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x15 - "Will You Take My Hand?"

[Long Syntax]

Interesting concepts introduced in the final episode, but ultimately too little time to do any of it justice in 45 mins. and came off as too contrived in many instances.

Although I rarely watch the After Trek show I figured I'd listen in on the final for Season 1. I was struck by a statement from Aaron Harberts that Star Trek was all about consensus - I'm paraphrasing to a certain extent, but I think I'm coming pretty close to what he said which was (if I recall right) in the context of Michael and the initial decision to mutiny and later making better decisions. It struck me because I actually said to myself, consensus - Star Trek is all about consensus? I thought it felt odd that a showrunner would make that statement. I certainly never felt ST was all about consensus. Usually they'd make a big deal about chain of command. Different show - different time I guess.

 

[cbl1]

I don’t think they meant consensus in that everyone gets a vote. I think they were talking more about her rather Vulcan arrogance in the beginning and her value of her coworkers and the group in the end.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Interesting concepts introduced in the final episode, but ultimately too little time to do any of it justice in 45 mins. and came off as too contrived in many instances.

Although I rarely watch the After Trek show I figured I'd listen in on the final for Season 1. I was struck by a statement from Aaron Harberts that Star Trek was all about consensus - I'm paraphrasing to a certain extent, but I think I'm coming pretty close to what he said which was (if I recall right) in the context of Michael and the initial decision to mutiny and later making better decisions. It struck me because I actually said to myself, consensus - Star Trek is all about consensus? I thought it felt odd that a showrunner would make that statement. I certainly never felt ST was all about consensus. Usually they'd make a big deal about chain of command. Different show - different time I guess.

Rose colored glasses I suppose?

I mean consensus never happened so often that I'd ever think the shlw was "all about" consensus. It sounds like such an odd thing to say.

I mean ask Chakotay what he thinks about consensus... or Kira....

 

[Jax]

The ending was cool and the episode overall was fine but it did lack some of the excitement a season finale should have IMO and for a wrap up of the Klingon Arc. I also hope I never see another Klingon again on Discovery, there look has bugged me all season and I just can't get over it.

So Pike, Number 1 & Spock are the commanding officers for the USS Enterprise at this point in time? or is Spock not 3rd in Command at this point?

Discovery only goes somewhere if one of two things (or both) happen:

1. The series becomes unprofitable due to a sudden and marked decline in CBS All Access subscriptions.

2. The suits at CBS have another Les Moonves moment and decide Trek just isn't worth the trouble anymore, at least for the time being.

Unless one or both happen during Season 2 this show isn't going anywhere. If CBS has proven anything over the years it's that whether a show is good or the worst thing since getting food poisoning in a Bangkok whorehouse it can stay on the air for a very long time.

Netflix basically paid for the show when it brought the worldwide rights to air it outside of North America, so I expect many more seasons.

 

[XCV330]

The ending was cool and the episode overall was fine but it did lack some of the excitement a season finale should have IMO and for a wrap up of the Klingon Arc. I also hope I never see another Klingon again on Discovery, there look has bugged me all season and I just can't get over it.

So Pike, Number 1 & Spock is commanding the USS Enterprise or is Spock not 3rd in Command at this point?

That will be interesting to see. I hope they show Una (number 1) though.

 

[cooleddie74]

Remember the last Star Trek series cliffhanger? It's been nearly 14 years but you don't forget the images.

Even if you want to.

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[CaptGrumpy]

Yknow, this episode set up why Spock has never mentioned Michael before. He's the Tommy Smothers of Star Trek. "Dad always liked you better"

 

[Nerys Myk]

Interesting concepts introduced in the final episode, but ultimately too little time to do any of it justice in 45 mins. and came off as too contrived in many instances.

Although I rarely watch the After Trek show I figured I'd listen in on the final for Season 1. I was struck by a statement from Aaron Harberts that Star Trek was all about consensus - I'm paraphrasing to a certain extent, but I think I'm coming pretty close to what he said which was (if I recall right) in the context of Michael and the initial decision to mutiny and later making better decisions. It struck me because I actually said to myself, consensus - Star Trek is all about consensus? I thought it felt odd that a showrunner would make that statement. I certainly never felt ST was all about consensus. Usually they'd make a big deal about chain of command. Different show - different time I guess.

He's not wrong. Consensus is what those damn briefing room scenes were about.
Star Trek often makes a point of circumventing the chain of command for the sake of what's right, consequences be damned. The show is not about blindly following the rules.

 

[cooleddie74]

When Burnham transports over to the Enterprise in the season premiere:

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[cbl1]

In after Trek they specifically said the answer as to why Spock does not mention her name is actually something they intend to answer.

 

[eschaton]

He's not wrong. Consensus is what those damn briefing room scenes were about.

Those scenes didn't exist on TOS, and were relatively rare on DS9 and ENT. They were basically a TNG invention which was also used on VOY.

 

[JD]

Ill be honest I think she is nuts for switching gears with the fleet approaching earth with no defenses, to take the bomb from George-yo and hand it off to Loreal,

I mean I woulda stuck with the global destruction thing

It's L'Rell and Georgiou.

 

[Nerys Myk]

In after Trek they specifically said the answer as to why Spock does not mention her name is actually something they intend to answer.

This is a TOS Klingon question. It doesn't need to be answered.

 

[Photoman15]

Because literally the entire show warps around how awesome and important she is, the entire plot revolves around ridiculous levels of plot armour because of how much everyone loves her.
Look at the "Shoot me" scene. This makes absolutely, no sense, whatsoever, MU Georgiou has no reason to not shoot her, but because it's Burnham, literally the most important and beloved person in multiple universes, it actually works.
Lorca once again, the show knew it was completely nonsensical so they literally had to make up "It's fate" to explain why Burnham is literally the most important and perfect person ever. Lorca dies because basically of how awesome and amazing and beautiful Burnham is and how he can't possibly think of living without her.

"who stumbled and made a bad decision, then had to work to atone for her mistakes and re-earn the trust of those she ended up working with."

Wrong, she never did make a bad decision, she was right all along and actually did the right thing, it was the other characters not heeding her absolute perfect brilliance that literally started the Klingon War. While she had to "Atone" for her ways, it took what, 2 days before she was literally the Science Officer of the most important ship in the entire Federation with literally everyone treating her, as the acting Captain?

Again, this is already on top of she's the magical long lost sister of Spock, and favourite child of Sarek and Greyson as well as being the best student ever from the Vulcan Science Academy.



She's a mary sue by pretty much every definition. The cast fawns over her, Enemies fawn over her, everything and everyones lives revolve around her, every event revolves around her, her amazingness LITERALLY transcends space-time into multiple universes, the plot time after time again produces contrived reasons as to why the reality seems to bend around her and why she is the most important person ever.

She's not the only Mary Sue character in Star Trek, Wesley at the start of TNG for most part was a eye rolling Mary Sue as well, but Burnham is honestly worse. She honestly feels like a Fanfiction character brought to life. I mean, the backstory alone is something straight from amateur hour at Fanfiction.net.

We went thru this in another thread. She is NOT a Mary Sue and that's by definition.
If we follow your logic, Captain Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, Spock, etc... are all Mary Sues. The cast fawns over them, they solve all the problems, etc..
Please go look up the actual definition for Mary Sue.

 

[zenophite]

Well, I just cried with joy at the Finale. NCC 17.... and Captain Pike and THEN the friggin music. WOW! Waited a loooong time for this.

I dunno....It felt to me like a cheap shot at fan service. Plus it only added to the whole confusion with the redesigned 1701...what universe is this?

 

[Long Syntax]

Remember the last Star Trek series cliffhanger? It's been nearly 14 years but you don't forget the images.

Even if you want to.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

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Yeah, the last of the Xindi arc going into season 4. It wasn't my favorite if I'm being honest. Loved ST:ENT, but that was an odd choice to do the space nazi thing. I forgave it because I liked the characters by then and could look past it. Ultimately that's what doomed DSC in my eyes - they didn't make me care for any of the characters first. Oh well, to each their own.

 

[cooleddie74]

Like Sybok he's probably harboring a sense of shame about her for some reason. With Sybok we know it's because his older brother became a religious fanatic and was banished from Vulcan society. With Michael it could be in part because she's human. And had a somewhat checkered past. And let's face it, Spock has enough problems with his human side in TOS and during later years to warmly embrace a human family member who probably reminds him of all his own emotional struggles and desire to make it in Starfleet on his own without his father the Vulcan Ambassador and a onetime mutineer (though exonerated) hovering over his shoulder making his career even more difficult.

 

[eltel99uk]

I think at some reasonable point (when the two-week embargo on "spoilers" expires?) soon, someone needs to start a thread on issues like:

(1) What, from canon, do we know MIGHT be a problem for USS Discovery - either the immediate problem Enterprise faces or other issues in its upcoming promised "return to exploration"?
(2) What gaps in canon might reasonably be filled (without too much bloodshed on here) and with what in order to help explain subsequent events in TOS etc....even if these are (like the MU) things that become classified and hence not known to Kirk & crew 10 years later ?
(3) Conversely, what events should DSC definitely stay well clear of, (first thought is the Romulans - though that didn't stop ENT from doing some shifty stuff with aliens they're not meant to have met in that timeframe), in order that canon is preserved regarding TOS?

Might be a way to keep discussions going in the hiatus.....or fights.... LOL

 

[Nerys Myk]

Those scenes didn't exist on TOS, and were relatively rare on DS9 and ENT. They were basically a TNG invention which was also used on VOY.

Don't make me post pics of the TOS crew in the briefing room.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

Ill be honest I think she is nuts for switching gears with the fleet approaching earth with no defenses, to take the bomb from George-yo and hand it off to Loreal,

I mean I woulda stuck with the global destruction thing

That's how a federation becomes an empire.