Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x14 - "The War Without, The War Within"

[cultcross]

. I complained about misrepresentation of my mixed view of Discovery as “wholesale bad”.

In that case, I misunderstood your post and apologise.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

In that case, I misunderstood your post and apologise.

Thank you.

End of issue.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Some good reviewer wrote such about a movie. Dang it, can't remember which, but it was a modern blockbuster with no soul or real buildup of emotion, just set-piece after moment after set-piece. Bunch of moments as opposed to a developing, y'know . . . story. Maybe it'll come to me. Too tired for the google sinkhole rt now

Justice League, perhaps?

 

[Photoman15]

Yeah, but why would they have to deceive the crew of Discovery? As others have been saying, they just returned from an alternate universe where everyone has a double and now suddenly there's Captain Georgiou, risen from the dead. Makes them look pretty stupid if they can't put one and one together there.

Admiral Cornwell, after locking down knowledge of the MU makes the Captain-Emporer announcement so it's ON THE RECORD, the handing over command to the previously thought dead Captain Georgiou.

 

[Michael]

Admiral Cornwell, after locking down knowledge of the MU makes the Captain-Emporer announcement so it's ON THE RECORD, the handing over command to the previously thought dead Captain Georgiou.

Wait a minute, are you saying that everyone on the bridge and indeed the whole crew of the Discovery is actually in on the “Captain Georgiou” charade and are just playing along for the sole purpose of falsifying Starfleet records? Surely that must be an outlier interpretation of that scene, no?

 

[cultcross]

Wait a minute, are you saying that everyone on the bridge and indeed the whole crew of the Discovery is actually in on the “Captain Georgiou” charade and are just playing along for the sole purpose of falsifying Starfleet records? Surely that must be an outlier interpretation of that scene, no?

That's how I interpreted it - not so much that they would be told the truth per sé but that they are sufficiently intelligent to put two and two together. Universe of duplicates... sudden reappearance of dead woman. Don't take a genius.
But for the purposes of the historical record, in order to keep the secret of the MU, they have to show Philippa Georgiou as alive and in command.

 

[Vger23]

Um..that happened ONLY on the I.S.S. Shenzhou; not the U.S.S. Discovery.

Thank you. I've been corrected 86 times already now.

 

[eltel99uk]

That's how I interpreted it - not so much that they would be told the truth per sé but that they are sufficiently intelligent to put two and two together. Universe of duplicates... sudden reappearance of dead woman. Don't take a genius.
But for the purposes of the historical record, in order to keep the secret of the MU, they have to show Philippa Georgiou as alive and in command.

Me too....but my niggle is that that is a LOT of people who have to keep schtum in future. In effect a conspiracy involving a whole crew that somehow worked so well that the Federation flagship officers had clearly not even heard rumours a few years later about even just the MU (even if the Emperor's role is successfully kept quiet). Possible? Yes. Plausible? IMO no. Just another loose thread that I think might have been dealt with better had they had more time to properly think through the entire structure of the season beforehand.

 

[cultcross]

Me too....but my niggle is that that is a LOT of people who have to keep schtum in future. In effect a conspiracy involving a whole crew that somehow worked so well that the Federation flagship officers had clearly not even heard rumours a few years later about even just the MU (even if the Emperor's role is successfully kept quiet). Possible? Yes. Plausible? IMO no. Just another loose thread that I think might have been dealt with better had they had more time to properly think through the entire structure of the season beforehand.

A conspiracy theory/rumour is potentially pretty limited in scope in Starfleet - it is an organisation which is spread out across the galaxy, and consists of officers used to dealing in secrecy and confidentiality. The Discovery itself is/was a secret project after all. While someone would say something at some point there's no doubt, a wall of silence or denials from the administration would stop it from gaining much traction - this appears to be a future which trusts its government.
Mirror, Mirror only takes place ten years after this, I could easily imagine them keeping a lid on it that long. It is much easier to keep a secret that seems absurd or laughable. "Did you hear, the Discovery went to a parallel world where everyone is on the same ships with the same people but everyone is eeeevil and has eeeevil goatees." Uh-huh. Surrrre they did.

 

[cooleddie74]

Nobody in the 23rd or 24th centuries seems to know anything about the existence of the Delphic Expanse or the Temporal Cold War. Starfleet is good at keeping things buried when it wants.

 

[eltel99uk]

A conspiracy theory/rumour is potentially pretty limited in scope in Starfleet - it is an organisation which is spread out across the galaxy, and consists of officers used to dealing in secrecy and confidentiality. The Discovery itself is/was a secret project after all. While someone would say something at some point there's no doubt, a wall of silence or denials from the administration would stop it from gaining much traction - this appears to be a future which trusts its government.
Mirror, Mirror only takes place ten years after this, I could easily imagine them keeping a lid on it that long. It is much easier to keep a secret that seems absurd or laughable. "Did you hear, the Discovery went to a parallel world where everyone is on the same ships with the same people but everyone is eeeevil and has eeeevil goatees." Uh-huh. Surrrre they did.

OK I can get that!

 

[Photoman15]

Wait a minute, are you saying that everyone on the bridge and indeed the whole crew of the Discovery is actually in on the “Captain Georgiou” charade and are just playing along for the sole purpose of falsifying Starfleet records? Surely that must be an outlier interpretation of that scene, no?

They might "know" or "suspect" but now "officially", They found Georgiou had survived and has been repatriated and given back her command. That's what's on the record.
Who knows if this crew/ship makes it out alive at the end of the series?

 

[Nyotarules]

They're at war. Rules are more strict, punishment more harsh.

Unless your good looking artist er Klingon formerly known as Voq then you can roam the ship and eat in the canteen

Then why fight? If love isn't the purpose behind what we do, then why fight? If compassion isn't present in war, then why spare any lives at all?

You fight to protect yourself and your loved ones.

 

[Nyotarules]

For Canadian perspective: it's the populations of Prince Albert, Moose Jaw and Swift Current and maybe Yorkton for good measure combined. That would still constitute a big deal.

Based on Canada's population in a civil war, North American war or even a global World War 3, it would. Based on the Federation with a population of trillions then perhaps less so.

 

[Timo]

Wait a minute, are you saying that everyone on the bridge and indeed the whole crew of the Discovery is actually in on the “Captain Georgiou” charade and are just playing along for the sole purpose of falsifying Starfleet records? Surely that must be an outlier interpretation of that scene, no?

Well, logically, this should be the mainstream interpretation.

But Detmer sort of shows ambiguity, initially cracking an uneasy smile (a reaction that would make no sense if she thought the Evil Emperor was taking the center seat).

Then again, nobody else does.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nyotarules]

I remember when that was the worst two hour of Star Trek in the franchise history.

At least it took Kahn seconds to get to Kronos, he didn't need no spore drive lol

 

[cooleddie74]

The less said about the Kelvin timeline's transwarp beaming the better. Even in Trek '09 - a generally fun and even great movie - it was cringeworthy.

 

[Nyotarules]

Nobody in the 23rd or 24th centuries seems to know anything about the existence of the Delphic Expanse or the Temporal Cold War. Starfleet is good at keeping things buried when it wants.

The midnight knock on the door from Section 31 is very effective......

 

[cooleddie74]

The Men in Black Alert.

 

[XCV330]

Back on Friday December 7th, 1979...

Star Trek: The Motion Picture ... was the Best Damn TWO HOURS of Trek we'd had in about 10 Years!!!

Folks who weren't there, have no clue about how appreciative most of us dedicated fans were.

I was there. The line was out the door. We went to the Black Hole instead. Came back and saw it later, though.