Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x14 - "The War Without, The War Within"

[Nerys Myk]

And you're clearly Welsh.

You had to remind me.

 

[cooleddie74]

He FOUND a way.

 

[Uhura's Song]

Here’s the thing, other than Michael, Saru, Cornwell, Sarek and Nameless Transporter Tech Guy, no one on the Discovery knows the Emperor isn’t Captain Georgiou.

Examine the facts.

1) Michael sent Saru the information about the Defiant before she found out the Emperor was Georgiou and apparently never mentioned this tiny little detail to Saru at any later point.
2) When Saru first saw the Emperor he called her Captain. Again, proving he didn’t know.
3) Saru orders the Emperor beamed directly to quarters and holds her there, specifically so no one else sees her.
4) Saru orders Nameless Transporter Tech Guy to say nothing about the Emperor under threat of Treason.

So no one on the Discovery ever saw the Emperor until she comes walking onto the bridge as Captain Georgiou.

The only two people on the ship who could ID Emperor Georgiou as an imposter are L’Rell and TyVoq, cuz, you know, they ate her.

The possible exception here is Detmer, who is the only other Discovery crew member who also served on the Shenzhou under Georgiou at the Battle of the Binary Stars. But while Detmer may suspect something’s up, she doesn’t *know*

Michael and Saru basically fucked themselves on this one.

Eh, no.

Proving she is the Emperor & knowing PU Georgiou is dead are not the same thing.

1) Yes. Few people know MU Georgiou is the Emperor.

2) But everyone on Disco knows she is MU because....

3) Everyone in the Fed knows PU Georgiou is dead. Even Burnham saw/heard Saru speak at the memorial. For crying out loud, they executed her last will & testament.

4) So everyone in the Fed will know she is a fraud because they all know she is dead.

 

[Galaxy]

Here’s the thing, other than Michael, Saru, Cornwell, Sarek and Nameless Transporter Tech Guy, no one on the Discovery knows the Emperor isn’t Captain Georgiou.

Examine the facts.

1) Michael sent Saru the information about the Defiant before she found out the Emperor was Georgiou and apparently never mentioned this tiny little detail to Saru at any later point.
2) When Saru first saw the Emperor he called her Captain. Again, proving he didn’t know.
3) Saru orders the Emperor beamed directly to quarters and holds her there, specifically so no one else sees her.
4) Saru orders Nameless Transporter Tech Guy to say nothing about the Emperor under threat of Treason.

So no one on the Discovery ever saw the Emperor until she comes walking onto the bridge as Captain Georgiou.

The only two people on the ship who could ID Emperor Georgiou as an imposter are L’Rell and TyVoq, cuz, you know, they ate her.

The possible exception here is Detmer, who is the only other Discovery crew member who also served on the Shenzhou under Georgiou at the Battle of the Binary Stars. But while Detmer may suspect something’s up, she doesn’t *know*

Michael and Saru basically fucked themselves on this one.

They just came back from a mirror universe where most people have doppelgängers, and now conveniently a thought dead Captain is presented as being alive. If the Discovery crew can not put one + one together, then they would be pretty gullible.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Eh, no.

Proving she is the Emperor & knowing PU Georgiou is dead are not the same thing.

1) Yes. Few people know MU Georgiou is the Emperor.

2) But everyone on Disco knows she is MU because....

3) Everyone in the Fed knows PU Georgiou is dead. Even Burnham saw/heard Saru speak at the memorial. For crying out loud, they executed her last will & testament.

4) So everyone in the Fed will know she is a fraud because they all know she is dead.

They have a cover story in place: Georgiou was found alive in a Klingon prison camp. The only person to see her die is Burnham.

Even in the real world, people thought to be dead are found alive.

 

[Captain Killy]

Eh, no.

Proving she is the Emperor & knowing PU Georgiou is dead are not the same thing.

1) Yes. Few people know MU Georgiou is the Emperor.

2) But everyone on Disco knows she is MU because....

3) Everyone in the Fed knows PU Georgiou is dead. Even Burnham saw/heard Saru speak at the memorial. For crying out loud, they executed her last will & testament.

4) So everyone in the Fed will know she is a fraud because they all know she is dead.

But there was no body and later they found Captain Georgiou alive in a Klingon Prison Camp.

 

[Vger23]

No.

That was on the ISS Shenzhou. And the only two Discovery crew that were on the ISS Shenzhou were Burnham & Lorca.

Honestly, no one else knows...yet

Yes indeed...you are correct!

 

[Awesome Possum]

But there was no body and later they found Captain Georgiou alive in a Klingon Prison Camp.

It's plausible enough. I doubt many even knew Georgiou was the MU Emperor. Maybe just Michael, Saru and that transporter technician.

 

[Shinzonfan]

If you are so dismissive of the Federations values, why the fuck are you even watching Star Trek?

Probably for the same reason I watched it in 1966 when I was 8 years old. I can't say if I saw it fresh or as reruns, at that age I wasn't really aware of things like that. I do recall it was on weekends, Saturday or Sunday not sure. It was a regular routine, cut the grass and come in the house for dinner then watch Star Trek. Sometimes we would have dinner in the living room because my dad liked Star Trek too.

I'm not 8 years old any more. but for a lifetime SciFi fan Star Trek has entertainment value that goes way beyond it's philosophy. My preference is a little more realism and believability in character motivations and story line (even in SciFi). It's not that I'm against Star Trek philosophy, which is actually pretty much in line with my own, it's the peachiness of it in this version that annoys me. It seems to me that Michael has been doing an inordinate amount of speechifying.

I don't mean to offend anyone with my opinions, but they are my opinions.

 

[gblews]

Just thought, I didn't miss Lorca at all. I think maybe the Emperor took up some of the space he used to occupy, for me at least.

 

[ALF]

Just wondering who/what we haven't seen yet that may provide some insight into the S1 finale. It is correct that we still don't know the location or fate of:
A) MU Burnham
B) PU Lorca

Yesterday, you dined on the entrails of his brethren and today, you seek his favor?
That is quality. I *really* hope we can keep Michelle Yeoh around for a few more episodes delivering the kind of MU sass we now have come to expect from her week to week.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I did miss that line, I must have been getting a beer. But still, the Discovery is a top secret experimental vessel, in the middle of a war not in their favour, having just returned from an alternate universe, and the crew can’t be told about a prisoner, and secrecy can serve no possible purpose beyond the later story development.

This is a contrivance, and it’s a contrivance too far!

"A contrivance too far" is the name of my next band.

And seriously, "contrivance" thy name is "Star Trek", and it always has been. This is a contrivance too far? Really? Not space salamandars? Or bloodless brain transplants? Temporary gender swapping? 50-foot Vulcans? Sentient holodecks? The gazelle speech? Really?

 

[Ovation]

"A contrivance tooo far" is the name of my next band.

And seriously, "contrivance" thy name is "Star Trek", and it always has been. This is a contrivance too far? Really? Not space salamandars? Or bloodless brain transplants? Temporary gender swapping? 50-foot Vulcans? Sentient holodecks? The gazelle speech? Really?

Hey now. Leave the gazelle speech alone.

 

[Vger23]

"A contrivance tooo far" is the name of my next band.

And seriously, "contrivance" thy name is "Star Trek", and it always has been. This is a contrivance too far? Really? Not space salamandars? Or bloodless brain transplants? Temporary gender swapping? 50-foot Vulcans? Sentient holodecks? The gazelle speech? Really?

To further the point, the entire plot of Star Trek II- The Wrath of Khan is built upon one giant contrivance after another.

Seemed to work ok for that film, and was certainly a forgiven sin.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I remember when that was the worst two hour of Star Trek in the franchise history.

I remember when "Spock's Brain" and "The Way to Eden" was the worst two hours in Trek history.
Then it was Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
Then it was Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.
Then it was "Code of Honor" and "Skin of Evil".
Then it was Star Trek: Generations.
Then it was "Profit and Lace" and "Let He Who Is Without Sin".
Then it was "Threshold" and "Fair Haven".
Then it was Star Trek: Insurrection.
Then it was Star Trek: Nemesis.
Then it was "Unexpected" and "These Are The Voyages".

IMO, nothing of what Disco has done yet has come close. A few missteps, yes, but not wholesale bad.

 

[Vger23]

I remember when "Spock's Brain" and "The Way to Eden" was the worst two hours in Trek history.
Then it was Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
Then it was Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.
Then it was "Code of Honor" and "Skin of Evil".
Then it was Star Trek: Generations.
Then it was "Profit and Lace" and "Let He Who Is Without Sin".
Then it was "Threshold" and "Fair Haven".
Then it was Star Trek: Insurrection.
Then it was Star Trek: Nemesis.
Then it was "Unexpected" and "These Are The Voyages".

IMO, nothing of what Disco has done yet has come close. A few missteps, yes, but not wholesale bad.

In fairness, you forgot "Move Along Home"

 

[Turtletrekker]

In fairness, you forgot "Move Along Home"

"Alamaraine!"

 

[137th Gebirg]

In fairness, you forgot "Move Along Home"

Yes, quite right. Although I found that one at least a tad bit more entertaining than the others and I wanted to keep with the two-hour patterns.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Then it was Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

Are you sure that was two hours? Because it felt like ten!

 

[PixelMagic]

I remember when "Spock's Brain" and "The Way to Eden" was the worst two hours in Trek history.
Then it was Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
Then it was Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.
Then it was "Code of Honor" and "Skin of Evil".
Then it was Star Trek: Generations.
Then it was "Profit and Lace" and "Let He Who Is Without Sin".
Then it was "Threshold" and "Fair Haven".
Then it was Star Trek: Insurrection.
Then it was Star Trek: Nemesis.
Then it was "Unexpected" and "These Are The Voyages".

IMO, nothing of what Disco has done yet has come close. A few missteps, yes, but not wholesale bad.

Nothing has ever dethroned TMP, or probably ever will.