Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x14 - "The War Without, The War Within"

[Turd Ferguson]

I wonder what "Captain" Georgiou showing up on the Discovery will do for the Klingon morale (especially if she photons the fuck out of military bases on Qo'nos)? According to Klingon records, Captain Georgiou died at the Battle of the Binary Stars, then the Discovery started jumping around kicking ass for months. Then, the Discovery went kaboom. Now, not only is the Discovery not kaboomed, but Captain Georgiou, who was presumably killed by their lord and savior, T'Kuvma, is back AND in charge of Discovery. Surely, this should create more discord among the houses as they start to wonder if T'Kuvma's teaching are bullshit, since, obviously, he's a liar and a phony.

 

[Tuskin38]

Surely, this should create more discord among the houses as they start to wonder if T'Kuvma's teaching are bullshit, since, obviously, he's a liar and a phony.

Nah they don’t care about T’kuvma anymore

Basically said as much last episode

 

[CJCade]

I wonder what "Captain" Georgiou showing up on the Discovery will do for the Klingon morale (especially if she photons the fuck out of military bases on Qo'nos)? According to Klingon records, Captain Georgiou died at the Battle of the Binary Stars, then the Discovery started jumping around kicking ass for months. Then, the Discovery went kaboom. Now, not only is the Discovery not kaboomed, but Captain Georgiou, who was presumably killed by their lord and savior, T'Kuvma, is back AND in charge of Discovery. Surely, this should create more discord among the houses as they start to wonder if T'Kuvma's teaching are bullshit, since, obviously, he's a liar and a phony.

This. This is exactly what I've been wondering. I believe putting the Emperor in the Captain's chair is partially to get just that reaction.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

But, surely they should be shitting their pants that two asskickers (one captain, one ship) are back from the dead and opening a can of whoopass?

 

[Captain Killy]

TLDR: finding the balance between our good natures and our darker sides.

As others have mentioned, handing over control of this critical mission to the evil emperor really is unrealistic and ridiculous. On the other hand, so much of Discovery has already been ridiculous and far removed from any semblance of probable reality, that at this point you may as well go with the ridiculous option, it almost makes sense.

In the first two episodes we were shown a utopian Starfleet that was the essence of political correctness, and likely a top-heavy bureaucratic organization that had no idea how to fight a war. At the battle of the binary stars they were clearly beyond their depth. This Starfleet has no grit, no sand, so no surprise they are being beaten.

Since then the only successes they've had that we've been shown were compliments of evil MU Lorca, who seemed to be single-handedly winning the war. Now we are going full circle with the reins being handed to evil MU Georgiou to do the dirty work that her good PU counterpart could never have ethically done. The Prime version of Georgiou may have been many good things, but she was not a warrior, and her correctness and unwavering devotion to utopian Starfleet principles doomed her to her fate. This is in spite of the fact she committed an atrocity by booby-trapping a dead body. IMO the writers were not trying to show what they showed - they thought they were showing tactical brilliance when in fact they showed her using the tactics of a terrorist.

What could make sense of this whole mess of a story would be if the mirror universe were a metaphor for the darker side of our nature, which we actually need to survive because that is where our survival instincts reside. Similar to TOS episode "The Enemy Within" Stardate: 1672.1 where Kirk is split into separate beings, one compassionate and one savage, who ultimately must reunite to survive. With this in mind, what the writers would be doing by installing MU Georgiou as captain, would be the equivalent of reaching into our darker natures and finding the will to survive.

If it were to go that route then the next step would be Starfleet committing an atrocity and threatening to commit more (like Hiroshima and Nagasaki), putting the Klingons in the position of facing the extinction of their species, and thus ending the war. I know a lot of people will be uncomfortable with this scenario, but I am fairly certain that the majority of men (maybe not woman) reading this will know deep down in their hearts that this is what we would do if we were in their position.

Of course we have the luxury of living in a time when not all human males have been neutered, so our perspective is obviously going to be different from utopian Starfleet. It might be difficult to find an un-neutered human male among the almost all female cast portraying humans on Discovery, but then maybe that's where MU Georgiou comes in - a metaphor for "un-neutered human male".

However, I'm probably giving the writers too much credit. It's more likely that Michael will save the day with a politically correct diplomatic compromise while spouting off some sanctimonious tripe about Federation values. Of course Michael will kill Georgiou along the way for betraying her and her uncompromisingly high ideals... and learn nothing from it... and still be stupid... because the writers keep writing her stupid - intentionally or unintentionally, I don't know which.

If that's the way it goes, the politically correct solution, then I'm out. There will be no second season for me.

I enjoyed 1-14, but not enough to win me over to the merits of this new Star Trek. They've got one shot left, they need to hit the target.

If you are so dismissive of the Federations values, why the fuck are you even watching Star Trek?

 

[Tim Thomason]

The House of D'Ghor was one of the early followers of T'Kuvma. I think the 24 houses are still following his example in waging war on the Federation for threatening their way. They just haven't united (not surprising, because T'Kuvma's chosen successor was deposed).

Now, the guy who brought them together for this glorious war has turned out to have been totally without honor. And his chosen successor seems to have literally abandoned the "Remain Klingon" mantra.

 

[SJA]

Hmmm...Enjoyed first 20 mins or so...Enjoyed the more studied pace and finally some sense - albeit it limited - of the scale of the war and threat to Fed - I like Saru and Cornwall as characters - Tbh the rest I found a bit of a drag...Annoyed that they seemed to have ruined the Tyler character by turning him into 'Emo' Vulcan/human with perpetually trembling lip - and made a complete dogs bollocks of the opportunity to do something interesting/valid about male sexual assault as a consequence- no doubt he will die in next ep heroically saving Michael from death - The line from Burnham saying the emperor deserved 'Asylum' was risible in the extreme - as did that bit of dialogue about 'daughter of my daughter who is not my daughter' or whatever it was! I still hopeful about Disc and like the show - but I have to say I've lost a bit of enthusiasm recently - Hopefully the finale will reinvigorate my interest/hopes!

 

[Captain Killy]

I gave this a five because I’m starting to suspect that the writers are taking the piss.

“Captain Georgio?” The crew say, “but surely that’s the Empress of the Terran Empire we brought back from the MU! Why are you trying to deceive us, previously presumed dead Admiral?”

Here’s the thing, other than Michael, Saru, Cornwell, Sarek and Nameless Transporter Tech Guy, no one on the Discovery knows the Emperor isn’t Captain Georgiou.

Examine the facts.

1) Michael sent Saru the information about the Defiant before she found out the Emperor was Georgiou and apparently never mentioned this tiny little detail to Saru at any later point.
2) When Saru first saw the Emperor he called her Captain. Again, proving he didn’t know.
3) Saru orders the Emperor beamed directly to quarters and holds her there, specifically so no one else sees her.
4) Saru orders Nameless Transporter Tech Guy to say nothing about the Emperor under threat of Treason.

So no one on the Discovery ever saw the Emperor until she comes walking onto the bridge as Captain Georgiou.

The only two people on the ship who could ID Emperor Georgiou as an imposter are L’Rell and TyVoq, cuz, you know, they ate her.

The possible exception here is Detmer, who is the only other Discovery crew member who also served on the Shenzhou under Georgiou at the Battle of the Binary Stars. But while Detmer may suspect something’s up, she doesn’t *know*

Michael and Saru basically fucked themselves on this one.

 

[gblews]

So, "The War" didn't have much in the way of action, so naturally some are referring to it as "filler", as though the writers didn't have enough story to cover 15 hours (or so) of TV time.

Anyway, I positively loved the episode. There may not have been much in the way of action but there was a whole lot going on. Seems it was mostly about the crew reconnecting as well as plotting a strategy to deal with a desperate situation. Burnham with Tyler, Tyler and Stamets, Burnham and Tilly, Burnham with Saru, Burnham and Sarek, and in a fashion, Saru and "Georgiou", were all given some time.

Stylistically the episode reminded me of an episode of Mad Men in that it was very subtle but potent. Stamets' reaction to Tyler was, I thought, as poignant a moment as I.ve seen in the show to date. His telling Tyler that Culber was a good man whom he loved, and thnen chalking Tyler's feelings up to proof that Ash was still human, was to me a powerful and great moment for the Stamets character.

The canonistas got a big old bone when Cornwell ordered info about the MU sealed and eventually destroyed.

Saru and Georgiou was as awkward as it should have been. For a moment I thought we were about to lose some of the development in the Burnham/Saru relationship, but glad to see that rather than storming off, they talked and got past the whole, "you ate my people" thing.

Cornwell was great. Loved the look Burnham gave Saru when Cornwell used her phaser to destroy a plateful of fortune cookies. Cornwell was not just Disco's new commander, but she was also hurt by the realization of having had intimate relations under false pretenses and that PU Lorca is dead.

Sarek and Georgiou were just sublime. Both engage in a bit of 'who's the better parent', which made me smile.

When Tilly went to sit with Tyler in the mess hall was a great Tilly moment.

Burnham's break up with Ash was predictable, but we've seen Trek break ups before, so we'll see about this.

Just like others, I loved the Archer name drop. That was just great.

Too bad we aren't going to get any of the MU Disco in the PU. Was looking forward to that.

There was much more going on this episode, just not enough time to talk about all of it.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

I remember when the federation recruited the most terrible dictator and genocide in the history of the earth to help them defeat the Klingons in a war

I remember when that was the worst two hour of Star Trek in the franchise history.

 

[DEWLine]

yeah, 80,000 dead is not even the size of a small town in the USA. For an intergalatic war that should not make your side 'desperate'.

For Canadian perspective: it's the populations of Prince Albert, Moose Jaw and Swift Current and maybe Yorkton for good measure combined. That would still constitute a big deal.

 

[Captain Killy]

A lot of people have been saying that it's easy to keep MU Phillipa a secret...but didn't she appear as a hologram in front of the whole bridge crew in "The Wolf Inside?"

No.

That was on the ISS Shenzhou. And the only two Discovery crew that were on the ISS Shenzhou were Burnham & Lorca.

Honestly, no one else knows...yet

 

[rhllot]

I remember when that was the worst two hour of Star Trek in the franchise history.

but there are

 

[Amaris]

I wonder what "Captain" Georgiou showing up on the Discovery will do for the Klingon morale (especially if she photons the fuck out of military bases on Qo'nos)? According to Klingon records, Captain Georgiou died at the Battle of the Binary Stars, then the Discovery started jumping around kicking ass for months. Then, the Discovery went kaboom. Now, not only is the Discovery not kaboomed, but Captain Georgiou, who was presumably killed by their lord and savior, T'Kuvma, is back AND in charge of Discovery. Surely, this should create more discord among the houses as they start to wonder if T'Kuvma's teaching are bullshit, since, obviously, he's a liar and a phony.

I would assume it looks something like this:

 

[plynch]

That's probably the most apt description for this show.
To be fair, the set pieces are amazing for a tv show! But Star Trek is probably the single, only science fiction property that doesn't necessarily need big set pieces. On many of the most popular Trek episdoes, the grand finale was three people in a room arguing. And those were some of the most intriguing moments of sci-fi entertainment ever captured on screen. I fear the producers don't trust a sober "story" anymore, and instead think people will only like their show if it offers "action" and "big twists"

Some good reviewer wrote such about a movie. Dang it, can't remember which, but it was a modern blockbuster with no soul or real buildup of emotion, just set-piece after moment after set-piece. Bunch of moments as opposed to a developing, y'know . . . story. Maybe it'll come to me. Too tired for the google sinkhole rt now

 

[CorporalClegg]

 

[Romulan_spy]

Some good reviewer wrote such about a movie. Dang it, can't remember which, but it was a modern blockbuster with no soul or real buildup of emotion, just set-piece after moment after set-piece. Bunch of moments as opposed to a developing, y'know . . . story. Maybe it'll come to me. Too tired for the google sinkhole rt now

Transformers? Fast & Furious?

 

[Shawnster]

They’re going to have to retcon this war surely. I don’t remember Kirk saying that he was in a Klingon war during this time.

Ih please, if anytanythany, this war further solidifies KirksK klingon biaab.

He's a soldier, not a diplomat.

He's never trusted Klingons

 

[cooleddie74]

Tilly in the mess hall with Tyler was one of the most human moments in the series so far. I really enjoyed it.

 

[cooleddie74]

Ih please, if anytanythany, this war further solidifies KirksK klingon biaab.

He's a soldier, not a diplomat.

He's never trusted Klingons

And you're clearly Welsh.