Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x14 - "The War Without, The War Within"

[Butters]

I dunno seems plausible to me.

If no one else knows, than no one else knows.

I mean crazier deceptions have happened even in our times.

But why wouldn’t they know? What’s the motive? Burnham want to save her, not lock her away. Saru is pragmatic and loyal to the Federation.

The whole crew knows about the mirror universe and the plan was to drop her at Star Base 1.

Why the secrecy? Why no, what should we do with her, conversation? Even if her existence is classified, the crew is already in on it.

The secrecy is for the benefit of the plot, and it shows.

 

[urbandefault]

"Uh, no, sir, I'm pretty sure treason is defined by the Federation Constitution. This would be merely unauthorized disclosure of classified information and disobeying a direct order. Also, you're not a judge and jury."

They're at war. Rules are more strict, punishment more harsh.

 

[Tim Thomason]

who's to say they have a jury system so directly similar to ours, and that their laws about treason work the same way?

perhaps in the federation, willfully disclosing classified information is treason.

Maybe. Who's to say that Saru is even speaking English, and maybe the UT was just generalizing the basic gist of what he said. I was just joshing around.

 

[Refuge]

But if you consider what treason actually is. And if you consider the rest of the crew as more than extras, and as part of a star fleet crew involved with the running of the ship and its survival, and their circumstances, their recent history, and Burnham’s reason for bringing the Empress aboard being purely personal, then that line can only be seen as the bollocks that it is.

It’s contrivance and I challenge the writers to not be so clumsy. They’re doing a good job when we’re hanging on the next word, not picking them apart.

The Empress being a secret only makes sense if, well, it doesn’t. So whatever happens in the next episode needs be taken with a dose of WTF, and it’s only the Star Trek in the title that gives it a free pass.

The very idea this tiny group, the captain, the teleport controller, and a non commissioned mutineer special, should hold this secret, is absurd. No first officer, no chief of security, no medic. No shift handover? And to what end? The pretence of the return of captain Georgeau?

I’m not gripped, as I should be, I’m slipping. And I really want to like this, i like trek, I want it on telly, new, but this type of shit is cancellation fodder.

As you say when you think of what treason does mean - betrayal of one's country, overthrowing sovereign power etc. it's more than a little bizarre to entrust anything to Empress Georgiou from another universe. She's not Georgiou or Starfleet. It's beyond ridiculous. Michael is a fool trying to use her favoured position to salve her conscience.

Keeping the true nature of Georgiou a secret from actual Academy trained crew is just another joke on them, hell they're used to being led by the nose by mirror captains. Bad enough that mirror Lorca was not Starfleet and went unknown, but to sanction Georgiou? One has to believe it will be revealed as a ruse.

 

[Butters]

One has to believe it will be revealed as a ruse.

I hope so.

 

[XCV330]

In the Star Trek universe a colony needs to have a viable population via migration and/or high birth rates for genetic diversity or it will die. So unless these colonies have just been established, the small colony syndrome makes no sense and is utterly ridiculous in Star Trek.
I know the whole franchise requires a suspension of disbelief in a lot of things but the writers need to stop getting to the stage as if they are treating the viewers like idiots. We scrutinise everything lol

I dont think that is an issue at all. One, they've not been out there very long, and two, people will get around. Tristan De Cunha has survived a couple of centuries on a population of less than a 1000. Pitcairn on less than 100. And neither of them had the advantage of in vitro or cell cloning. (see SevenEves to see the extremes of what humanity could survive on). Plus the occasional visitor would stop by. Genetic bottleneck resolved.

 

[Vger23]

The Lorca swap I admit is still fuzzy to me. I even read through the transcript in case I missed something. Cornwell does assume her Lorca (oh that was sad) was lost/dead in the mirror universe. But really? Did he swap out then and how again? Did he die on the Buran? Is it grasping at straws that he might be alive?

The show sucks, and is shitty, and is laughable with lazy writing and horrible, unlikable characters...but you'll spend time reading the bloody transcripts to try and figure something out about a finer plot point?

I don't really care...I'm just asking for a friend.

 

[Amaris]

I doubt compassion and love defeats the enemy in real wars, especially their spies.

Then why fight? If love isn't the purpose behind what we do, then why fight? If compassion isn't present in war, then why spare any lives at all?

 

[CaptainMurdock]

Tyler is starting to remind me of Ray Romano.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.

 

[Vger23]

A lot of people have been saying that it's easy to keep MU Phillipa a secret...but didn't she appear as a hologram in front of the whole bridge crew in "The Wolf Inside?" That rumor would have taken about 12.73 seconds to circulate through the entire ship.

And, if so, I don't think it's plausible that anyone would actually believe the "coincidence" that Georgeau is the PU one.

Hmmmmmmm......

Still loved the episode, and maybe that's one that will be explained further, so reserving judgement...but it seems like a stretch.

 

[Ovation]

Why no, what should we do with her, conversation?

There was such a conversation. Cornwell even says it directly to the emperor.

There’s no protocol for them to follow. Saru didn’t know she was the emperor until after she snipes at him. He then makes a decision on the spot to isolate her (hence the order to transport guy). Before any further time to work it out, in comes the boarding party. Then the admiral and Sarek are told of the emperor. They order secrecy be maintained. NO ONE ELSE on the ship knows until the reveal.

I don’t think the ruse is supposed to last long, even in Cornwell’s mind, but it avoids an immediate problem and punts it to a later time—standard bureaucratic thinking.

 

[Refuge]

The show sucks, and is shitty, and is laughable with lazy writing and horrible, unlikable characters...but you'll spend time reading the bloody transcripts to try and figure something out about a finer plot point?

I don't really care...I'm just asking for a friend.

I like to be informed

 

[Longinus]

The show sucks, and is shitty, and is laughable with lazy writing and horrible, unlikable characters...but you'll spend time reading the bloody transcripts to try and figure something out about a finer plot point?

Personally I think it is a bunch of pretty likeable characters (the few remaining ones that have not yet been killed or revealed to be evil doppelgängers, anyway) trapped in a really nonsensical and badly written plot.

I really hope that the clusterfuck that has been this season is the result of Fuller's departure mid production, and we get something more coherent next season. The actors are good and giving their all, they deserve better.

 

[ITDUDE]

2/10, reset is coming. If reset doesn't actually come, I will retroactively rate this one a 3/10. Weak, predictable, "shock of the week" style that's becoming not very "shocking" anymore

 

[starri]

A lot of people have been saying that it's easy to keep MU Phillipa a secret...but didn't she appear as a hologram in front of the whole bridge crew in "The Wolf Inside?"

That was on the Shenzhou.

 

[Longinus]

2/10, reset is coming. If reset doesn't actually come, I will retroactively rate this one a 3/10. Weak, predictable, "shock of the week" style that's becoming not very "shocking" anymore

At this point I would prefer a reset.

 

[Mr Pointy Ears]

I'm starting to like the series just by the last few epsiodes that air after the break.

 

[CorporalClegg]

So we have a mutineer, a mirror Captain wannabe, and a Klingon/human freak. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Kickstart my heart.

 

[Succubint]

Emperor Georgiou only appeared in front of the Mirror Shenzhou crew. The only prime people who saw her then were Burnham and the now deceased Lorca. She's not even visible in the transmissions to the Discovery from the Throne room of the ISS Charon. So, very few Discovery people know who the faceless MU Emperor was, and if they do, they are sworn to secrecy. It's on a need to know basis at this point, isn't it?

 

[Tim Thomason]

I dont think that is an issue at all. One, they've not been out there very long, and two, people will get around. Tristan De Cunha has survived a couple of centuries on a population of less than a 1000. Pitcairn on less than 100. And neither of them had the advantage of in vitro or cell cloning. (see SevenEves to see the extremes of what humanity could survive on). Plus the occasional visitor would stop by. Genetic bottleneck resolved.

And plenty of Harry Mudd types to provide "wives" or to ferry women to bigger "better" colonies as need be. The future is great.