Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x13 - "What's Past Is Prologue"

[Lord Garth]

This is a common view and I certainly see where it comes from, but I don't agree - Wesley was the best of everything, better at the senior staffs jobs than they were, out of nowhere. He was a high school kid! His only 'flaw' was that he was just so amazing that he had trouble relating to those his own age.
Tilly shares something of his earnest nature and his "golly gee!" excitement at being on a spaceship, but she is a believable bright-but-green-as-gummy-bears young professional on a grad scheme. She's a fourth year cadet, she's essentially got a degree in what she's doing. She should be good at it. She's believable, and that's the difference. I sit next to a Tilly at work. I've never worked with a Wesley.

If anything, Kelvin Timeline Kirk is a lot worse than Wesley or Tilly in that regard. He leap-frogged from Cadet to Captain on one mission. A mission he wouldn't have even been part of if McCoy hadn't helped him stow-away.

Or Nog. Tilly's a fourth-year cadet but Nog was only at Starfleet Academy for a year before he was stationed to DS9. Then another year later, he was made Ensign. Granted, that was a war-time promotion. But, in DSC, it's also a time of war. So Tilly's situation, in fact, isn't any different from Nog's... Except he put in even less time in the Academy and three years before he joined, he was illiterate. So, over the course of DS9's seven seasons, Nog went from Illiterate to Lieutenant.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If anything, Kelvin Timeline Kirk is a lot worse than Wesley or Tilly in that regard. He leap-frogged from Cadet to Captain on one mission.

Lieutenant to Captain, actually.

 

[cultcross]

So, over the course of DS9's seven seasons, Nog went from Illiterate to Lieutenant.

I definitely work with some people like that, too.

 

[Jack Watkins]

"What is past is also sometimes future" (Who can place that quote?).

I've got some mixed feelings on this one. My review of "What's Past is Prologue:" https://wp.me/p8wVHj-bC

 

[ThunderAeroI]

So, where is prime Lorca?

 

[XCV330]

So, where is prime Lorca?

disguised, biding his time, restablishing his family's fortune cookie business in the mirror universe.

 

[Gonzo]

Although we tend to forget it after so many years of wise Spock, he had a Saru like arc of growing into command in season 1, if you compare his command style from, say, Galileo Seven, to Who Mourns for Adonais, the improvement is very noticeable.

You also have to give the actors time to grow into their roles as well.

It's not a quick process.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

So, where is prime Lorca?

Surgically altered to look like a Klingon, named L'Rell.

 

[nutshell]

Why do folks keep saying the Tyler/Voq issue needs to be resolved or sorted out. I thought it was clear an episode or two ago that L’Rell “released” Voq from the physical body, thereby killing him. She did the Klingon death scream after all. Did I miss something?

 

[nutshell]

"What is past is also sometimes future" (Who can place that quote?).

I've got some mixed feelings on this one. My review of "What's Past is Prologue:" https://wp.me/p8wVHj-bC

Read your review. Great job! I mostly agree with it. The only thing I disagree with is th surprise of Lorca having/wanting a romantic relationship with Burnham. I went straight to the scene some episodes ago where Lorca didn’t want Burnham to go to the Klingon ship with Tyler. It was a risky mission and he didn’t want her to go. That scene told me there was something more between Lorca and Burnham. I wasn’t sure what, but now we know!

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I liked the episode, I thought they executed the escape well. I wonder how quickly PU Lorca is going to show up. And I hope they don't have to resort to time travel to win the war, I hope they're going toward a situation where Georgio gives them a very destructive path to victory and Michael Burnham has to choose between that and applying the lessons she learned from MU Voq.

I agree it seemed that she just removed Voq from his body, but I've learned to anticipate Discovery to take the lesser of two possible paths, so I'm not sure it is what it seems.

Hopefully they bring back some real ethical ambiguity to the series, after they blew all of Lorca's making his moral choices determined by his universe only.

 

[Jack Watkins]

Read your review. Great job! I mostly agree with it. The only thing I disagree with is th surprise of Lorca having/wanting a romantic relationship with Burnham. I went straight to the scene some episodes ago where Lorca didn’t want Burnham to go to the Klingon ship with Tyler. It was a risky mission and he didn’t want her to go. That scene told me there was something more between Lorca and Burnham. I wasn’t sure what, but now we know!

Thank you!

I'll look for that next time (I'll probably marathon the show once the season ends, then drop CBS All Access like a bad habit!). Lazy foreshadowing isn't something I'd normally accuse the show of, which is partially why I was put off.

 

[eschaton]

Why do folks keep saying the Tyler/Voq issue needs to be resolved or sorted out. I thought it was clear an episode or two ago that L’Rell “released” Voq from the physical body, thereby killing him. She did the Klingon death scream after all. Did I miss something?

I'd say it seems like too simple of a resolution, and something more is going to happen yet. But after Lorca, I won't give the writers that much credit.

 

[Orac]

I was happy to see Lorca die. They can finally undim the lights on Discovery.
But then Burnham bought MU Georgiou aboard, so the lights will probbly stay down low for a few more episodes until they rekill her.

Question: If I like Michael Burnham and think that Lorca was a super creep all along does that make me an SJW homo commie?

My score: 9½

 

[lawman]

Why do folks keep saying the Tyler/Voq issue needs to be resolved or sorted out. I thought it was clear an episode or two ago that L’Rell “released” Voq from the physical body, thereby killing him. She did the Klingon death scream after all. Did I miss something?

Well, hmm. Because if that was it, then it was an extremely quick and cursory resolution to a prolonged storyline, offered without adequate context or explanation? After everything the Klingons did to combine Tyler and Voq, it seems implausible that it could be fixed non-invasively in ten seconds with a pair of glowing gloves. And even if it were so, L'rell has no obvious motivation to expunge Voq rather than Tyler. And even if she had that motivation, it's clear that L'rell is not somebody whose words and actions can be trusted at face value.

All of that can be fanwanked and rationalized, of course... as is the case for a lot (too much) on this show. But it shouldn't have to be. After all the lengthy setup involving Tyler/Voq, surely we deserve something more by way of payoff?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^ what, like they handled Lorca?

 

[Lakenheath 72]

About the meteoric rise of a figure, I was reading about Vicomte de Turenne. He was a general in the 17th century. By age 15, he was captain of infantry and within five years he was marechal-de-camp (today's equivalent of major general). However, his circumstances were unique. He had familial connections, he demonstrated from an early age that he was a miiitary genius, and he lived in a time where Europe was engulfed by many wars, including the Thirty Years War in which he was a participant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_de_La_Tour_d'Auvergne,_vicomte_de_Turenne

So, it's possible. However, I can not see, in what is known about the alternate universe, how a young officer like James T. Kirk can become a commander of a capital ship, much less the flagship, of Starfleet. Tilly's rise can be explained more easier. The mirror universe Terrans were in a constant state of warfare, within the ranks and from without by factions hostile to the empire, and the Discovery was not a top-of-the line ship. The ship was the mirror universe's equivalent of a science ship.

 

[Gonzo]

Why do folks keep saying the Tyler/Voq issue needs to be resolved or sorted out. I thought it was clear an episode or two ago that L’Rell “released” Voq from the physical body, thereby killing him. She did the Klingon death scream after all. Did I miss something?

We are meant to think he is dead, certainly L'Rell thinks he is as that was indeed the Klingon death ritual.

 

[cooleddie74]

They can finally undim the lights on Discovery.

If there's one silver lining to Lorca no longer being aboard the Discovery this is it. I doubt it'll happen as modern television deliberately seems to eschew bright lighting on the sets of hour-long dramas for edgy, "cool" and atmospheric reasons. It gets tiresome on Trek.

 

[Tuvix5675]

This is a common view and I certainly see where it comes from, but I don't agree - Wesley was the best of everything, better at the senior staffs jobs than they were, out of nowhere. He was a high school kid! His only 'flaw' was that he was just so amazing that he had trouble relating to those his own age.
Tilly shares something of his earnest nature and his "golly gee!" excitement at being on a spaceship, but she is a believable bright-but-green-as-gummy-bears young professional on a grad scheme. She's a fourth year cadet, she's essentially got a degree in what she's doing. She should be good at it. She's believable, and that's the difference. I sit next to a Tilly at work. I've never worked with a Wesley.

But Tilly is better at the senior staff jobs than they are, she outsmarts everyone but Burnham. She taught Stamets about spores, Saru about science, she became Captain faster than Burnham, etc.