Everything Discovery has abandoned over the course of this season...

[eschaton]

It was my impression that her abandoning a pure Vulcan approach was the point of the prologue.

Huh, how do you mean? Do you mean that Burnham thought the "logical" thing to do was to try and neck-pinch her captain and take command?

It was pretty clear at that point she was absolutely terrified, thus not thinking logically at all. And (unfortunately) the way the story is structured, it implies if they did give a "Vulcan hello" the war would have been averted.

 

[seigezunt]

The fact that the whole "Klingon Hello" approach turned out, in her mind at the time, to be a disaster.

 

[BillJ]

but for now I focus on thlingan hol, just for BillJ's eyes to glaze again

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[eschaton]

The fact that the whole "Klingon Hello" approach turned out, in her mind at the time, to be a disaster.

But if you remember how it happened, T'Kumva uses the Federation message of "we come in peace" to unite the houses around the idea of engaging in a first strike against the Federation because...I dunno, reasons I guess.

If the Shenzhou had shot first, they would have proven to at least some of the houses that they were "honorable" and T'Kumva would never get the support he needed to start the war.

 

[Captain Killy]

It was absolutely a part of the early episodes that Burnham had a hard time expressing her emotions in a normal human manner. She even had an extended monologue about at the end of one of the episodes. Confusingly it seemed to veer back and forth depending upon what episode it was, but so far in Act 2 she's acting like a normal human being - expressing, fear, horror, disgust, sadness, etc. I never bought the whole "raised by Vulcans, can't emote right" thing anyway, because her seven years on the Shenzhou should have mellowed her more.

She’s still struggling. The party made her uncomfortable. Ash is her first love and she’s never been in a relationship before (him being a Klingon is going to kill her). My girl is not doing ok, and the only thing holding her together is that Vulcan training. Hell her Vulcan training is the only thing that got her through that meal.

IShe had a whole monologue in the first episode which amounted to "all Klingons understand is violence."

And nothing’s happened thus far to show she doesn’t still believe that.

 

[dahj]

Klingons speaking in their own language with subtitles

 

[Mudd]

It was absolutely a part of the early episodes that Burnham had a hard time expressing her emotions in a normal human manner. She even had an extended monologue about at the end of one of the episodes. Confusingly it seemed to veer back and forth depending upon what episode it was, but so far in Act 2 she's acting like a normal human being - expressing, fear, horror, disgust, sadness, etc. I never bought the whole "raised by Vulcans, can't emote right" thing anyway, because her seven years on the Shenzhou should have mellowed her more.



She had a whole monologue in the first episode which amounted to "all Klingons understand is violence." Replace the use of the term Klingon with some earth group (blacks, muslims, etc) and it comes across as very offensive.

Much of Burnham's behavior in the pilot, after Shenzhou first encounters Klingons, makes sense in the context of her childhood trauma breaking through her Vulcan conditioning and causing her to act impulsively in ways she doesn't anticipate or understand.

Which fits rather nicely with Fuller's assertion that "to understand all things alien she'll first have to understand herself."

This got lost pretty quick in the melodrama.

 

[eschaton]

She’s still struggling. The party made her uncomfortable. Ash is her first love and she’s never been in a relationship before (him being a Klingon is going to kill her). My girl is not doing ok, and the only thing holding her together is that Vulcan training. Hell her Vulcan training is the only thing that got her through that meal.

If you see it, it's your opinion. Obviously most of the time she is emoting it's been in the presence of Ash, which is a special case, but I've seen her behaving like a normal human being for at least the past 4-5 episodes.

It's an aside from this thread, but the "never been in a relationship" thing didn't make much sense to me, because she wasn't in a deep freeze from getting posted on the Shenzhou to the BotBS. The show sometimes makes it seem like she had little-to-no development as a person during that time period.

And nothing’s happened thus far to show she doesn’t still believe that.

Maybe. Her discussion with Mirror Voq seemed naive, but not openly racist. I will be impressed if they keep this as a character flaw.

Maybe I should have said extended subtitles. Trek has used brief phrases of Klingon (both subtitled and not) many times in the past.

 

[eschaton]

More generally, I should make it clear that I think Discovery has improved in most manners as the season has worn on (minus character development, which peaked in the mid/back part of Act 1). But the early installments suggested higher aspirations for the series, however flawed they were in execution.

 

[Mudd]

One might almost suspect that there's a draft somewhere that has Burnham reflexiively lashing out and killing the Torchbearer rather than the dramatically awkward "accident" occurring.

It's odd to see essentially the same turning point repeated at two pivotal moments in the pilot: first Burnham screws up by killing the Torchbearer, and then screws up by killing T'kuvma. That sort of thing shows up in texts that have been revised and added to by several hands...

 

[Midquest]

I can't really agree with any of these dropped elements. Many of them ignore the possibility of character development - these things should change, and it seems disingenuous to call a developing element of the show something dropped.

Michael's characterization has been quite consistent. She's very Vulcan in flashbacks, retreats into that persona when reconciled to her incarceration, and then slowly unfolds into an increasingly more human personality. She learned about emotion with Tyler, and we saw the climax of that arc when she and he confronted his real identity.

Tilly is still socially awkward. That's never changed, but we learn that as with many shy people, she becomes a different person after a few drinks. (We knew she was more than just shy from the first time we saw her assert herself in the Glenn, so the show has been telling us from the start that she's more than just "awkward cadet who's also a genius." And if course, again as with many shy people, she's a much more awkward person when in a high pressure situating like meeting her new roommate.

And who told you that the show would explore the different Klingon houses? Unless the show specifically told you to expect that, it sounds like you're working from interviews and statements by actors and writers, not the material on screen. We got the different houses when they were relevant, and explored those differences via Kol and L'Rell. You're asking the show to do something it never promised.

Same thing with the lower decks idea. Did the show promise to be a lower decks scenario? Nope. Only something stated in press materials. Half of our main characters are bridge characters from the start, so of course we get a mixed focus on engineering and the bridge. The show didn't change or fail here beyond natural evolution that a show would undertake.

Same thing with Stamets. We met him as an overworked scientist who doesn't like what his work is being used for and who is losing the race with the Glenn. He gets much happier once he can talk to his spores, as the show literally discusses in dialogue.

And OF COURSE the show shifts away from Michael! She's the person we follow from the opener into the series proper. The show was always going to expand and include more people. Why is that even a change or gripe?

Some of these are simply untrue. Klingons spoke Klingon with Klingons as recently as the last aired episode.

Honestly, I don't think many of these criticisms make sense. And if they did? We're you disappointed when any of the others shows grew out of their season one boxes?

 

[eschaton]

One might almost suspect that there's a draft somewhere that has Burnham reflexiively lashing out and killing the Torchbearer rather than the dramatically awkward "accident" occurring.

It's odd to see essentially the same turning point repeated at two pivotal moments in the pilot: first Burnham screws up by killing the Torchbearer, and then screws up by killing T'kuvma. That sort of thing shows up in texts that have been revised and added to by several hands...

I remember when the two-parter first premiered, someone suggested on another forum it seemed like someone (likely Bryan Fuller) wanted things to be really Burnham's fault - whether it be her successfully getting the Shenzhou to shoot first or whatever. However, someone else (Kurtzman perhaps?) interfered under the logic that the protagonist can't be seen as being wrong. So we have this weird in-between, where Burnham made a personally costly decision, but the plot of the story suggests she was right to make that choice. Burnham thus gets to be "right" (even if only we know it as viewers) and gets blamed for starting a war which she did not in fact start.

 

[eschaton]

Honestly, I don't think many of these criticisms make sense. And if they did? We're you disappointed when any of the others shows grew out of their season one boxes?

I'm not disappointed - I'm just listing all of the things that seem to have changed mid stream. As I said, I think the show is better put together now, it's just in many ways less ambitious.

You could do this for every show though. For example, there are in-show narratives to suggest the run-up to the Dominion War for DS9. But the reason outside the show was ratings were low and they hoped the war story would improve ratings. Kes was dopped from Voyager because they didn't know what to do with her character, even if there was an "in-canon" answer as well. Mentioning the ways the focus of the show shifts doesn't mean there may not be narrative excuses for it. But ultimately it's about tweaking the show to work better or to get higher ratings.

 

[seigezunt]

I think it's a good list. I think some things might come back, like Grumpy Stamets and More Nuanced Saru, and the Klingon houses, and some I don't care about much.

I do think the "lower decks" thing sort of failed, and it ended up leaving us with this odd focus and having these lower deck characters do things like fill in for the offscreen CMO.

 

[Cyrus]

• Tilly changing from a very weird, possibly ASD character to just slightly adorkable

What does adorkable mean? She is an adorable dork? I guess that fits

 

[BillJ]

So was Commander Landry also from the Mirror Universe?

 

[seigezunt]

I'm thinking so. Or the Idiot Universe.

 

[Cyrus]

So was Commander Landry also from the Mirror Universe?

I think we will find out in this week's episode, as she is in it.

 

[eschaton]

So was Commander Landry also from the Mirror Universe?

Looks like some version of her is going to be taken out of an agonizer booth on Sunday, so presumably the idiot who referred to prisoners as "animals" and "garbage" is actually from the Prime Universe.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Which would make zero sense, given that he is the leader of a diverse group of rebels (with which he has to communicate on a daily basis) speaking with Terrans

And also because Voq said the Klingon language was outlawed by the Empire. So he may not even remember how to speak it.

(side note: This is the first time that we ever hear Voq - either version - speaking English, amirite? Not counting the Ash cover identity of course.)