The weirdly small and empty universe of Discovery

[BillJ]

But "How great Burnham is" is the one thing that scene DOESN'T tell us about. The Captain mentions it's time for Burnham to get her own command... and that's about it. What it SHOWS is, however, is that these are two people who have an excellent working relationship, who trust each other and know each other intimately, and that one of them (Georgiou) is just a bit wiser and more experienced than the other.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

 

[Crazy Eddie]

They should've stuck with "Context is for Kings" as the pilot.

While it isn't perfect, it is far less drab, stilted and uninspired than "The Vulcan Hello"/"The Battle at the Binary Stars".

And then you would be sitting there complaining about how the stupid producers dropped the viewers into the middle of a war with all this background that they didn't bother explaining in the first place and "Terrible writing! Don't they know anything about world building?"

This is the problem with fandom: they could build a show to our exact demanding specifications and we would STILL complain about it. Except that we would be the only ones watching it, so there's that...

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

Dude, you have watched EVERY EPISODE of this series at least twice. If you were BORED by the opening scene, you wouldn't have watched it at all.

Stop bullshitting.

 

[BillJ]

And then you would be sitting there complaining about how the stupid producers dropped the viewers into the middle of a war with all this background that they didn't bother explaining in the first place and "Terrible writing! Don't they know anything about world building?"

No. I wouldn't. I didn't complain when we got dropped into a standoff between the Narada and the Kelvin, when Kirk and McCoy were running for their lives from the natives of Nibiru or when we are dropped into a negotiation Kirk was having in Star Trek Beyond.

Everything in the first two episodes could've been condensed to a few lines. As a matter of fact, they pretty much recap everything we needed to know in the shuttle before Discovery picks them up.

 

[BillJ]

Dude, you have watched EVERY EPISODE of this series at least twice. If you were BORED by the opening scene, you wouldn't have watched it at all.

Actually, I haven't. I've rewatched "The Vulcan Hello" (because it could be that bad?) and "Context is for Kings" (much better as an introduction). I have watch most of The Orville episodes more than once.

 

[fireproof78]

This is the problem with fandom: they could build a show to our exact demanding specifications and we would STILL complain about it. Except that we would be the only ones watching it, so there's that...

Fandom.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Actually, I haven't. I've rewatched "The Vulcan Hello" (because it could be that bad?) and "Context is for Kings"

Coming from the same person who posted:

The color and energy is where I find Discovery incredibly lacking. It is very laid back. One of the big things I enjoyed about the Abrams films is how they grab you right out of the gate. Discovery gave us two people walking in a desert fixing a well. That was it. After a twelve year absence, that was the best opening they could come up with? Even "Broken Bow" opened with a Klingon crashing on Earth, a chase and an exploding grain silo.

... tells me you're either bullshitting or you're commenting on something you barely paid attention to.

Not sure which of those would surprise me less.

 

[BillJ]

... tells me you're either bullshitting or you're commenting on something you barely paid attention to.

I seriously think you don't have a clue. My stance going back to the original airing of "The Vulcan Hello" is that the show is bland and uninspired. I made it through seven episodes, then gave up for a while. Came back and watched the last four, two of which I found to be marginally more entertaining.

So why not quit telling people how many times they've watched something and actually pay attention to what they are posting?

 

[Longinus]

On the other hand, the very first scene of Star Trek Discovery has Burnham and Georgiou on a mercy mission on desert planet, a scene that ends with the two of them drawing a giant Starfleet Delta in the sand. Apart from the epic awesomeness of this scene, it's also revealing that this might be the first time in Star Trek television history two characters were shown covering any sort of real distance during an away mission.

This remains as my favourite scene of entire series. I'd have loved a show about Georgiou and Burnham exploring strange new worlds like this, instead of what we actually got.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I seriously think you don't have a clue. My stance going back to the original airing of "The Vulcan Hello" is that the show is bland and uninspired. I made it through seven episodes, then gave up for a while. Came back and watched the last four, two of which I found to be marginally more entertaining.

So it's Option A, then. Gotcha.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

This remains as my favourite scene of entire series. I'd have loved a show about Georgiou and Burnham exploring strange new worlds like this, instead of what we actually got.

As Degara aptly put it once, "Maybe when this is all over, they will again"

 

[Longinus]

As Degara aptly put it once, "Maybe this all over, they will again"

Let's hope so!

 

[fireproof78]

As Degara aptly put it once, "Maybe when this is all over, they will again"

They can't! Then what will we complain about?

 

[Mudd]

Dude, you have watched EVERY EPISODE of this series at least twice. If you were BORED by the opening scene, you wouldn't have watched it at all.
.

I haven't. They lost me a while ago, because dreary boring fanwank.

Honestly, I do not give a fuck about stupid Star Trek space war and there's probably not a way they could approach it that would make me care - because everything about the Trek set-up makes space war completely unconvincing and dull.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I haven't. They lost me a while ago, because dreary boring fanwank.

Honestly, I do not give a fuck about stupid Star Trek space war and there's probably not a way they could approach it that would make me care - because everything about the Trek set-up makes space war completely unconvincing and dull.

I'm still watching the show pretty closely, but I can't disagree with you about the Space War story arc... it is not and has never been something Star Trek did particularly well. They did it okay in DS9, but that show was a lot more character-centered and that more than made up for it.

OTOH, Discovery seems to have moved on past the "Klingon War" story arc and being trapped in the waking nightmare that is the Mirror Universe is turning out to be WAY more interesting.

 

[eschaton]

Really? Because literally EVERYONE I have shown that first episode to has responded to that opening scene with something alone the lines of, "Ohhhh. Cool!" It's actually one of the more interesting openings of any Star Trek I've ever seen.

I mean, it's not Captain Kirk beating his first officer in a game of Chess and then sounding a red alert because they found a space beacon... that was hella exciting.
It's not Jean Luc Picard narrating a breathless log entry about how cool his ship was and then chatting with one of his bridge officers about the etymology of the word "snoop" before being brought to a stop by a guy in a conquistador costume.
It's DEFINITELY not an entire Federation fleet getting its ass kicked at Wolf 359 and the crew climbing into their escape pods in blood and tears.
Hell, it's not even a group of maquis in a tiny spaceship doing a thing to the thing and then getting hit by the thing. That was hella exciting too.

No, it's two officers on a mission of exploration, getting totally lost in the desert, and using a relatively clever trick to get their starship to swoop in and pick them up.

It's no better or worse than any other Star Trek opener, but it does it on a grander scale than most of its predecessors.

It's been awhile since I've watched The Vulcan Hello, but I distinctly remember the opening was not the admittedly cool scene with Georgiou and Burnham in the desert. It was watching T'Kumva's mushmouthed, subtitled speech in front of a room of bald Klingons. It was anything but exciting - it was boring. Hell, I hated the Klingon scenes so much that I probably would have liked the first episode much, much better if they were edited out entirely.

And the episode as a whole - hell, the first two episodes as a whole - were a bait and switch. Maybe it's just because Bryan Fuller blew all the money as I said, but for all their flaws, those episodes were cinematic and promised this big, beautiful story. Which was then promptly abandoned for a very tightly-focused story with a much more limited vista. Along with the ship. And every character introduced other than Burnham and Saru.

I also think it was a mistake to have the first episode only as a publicly-aired teaser on CBS, because there was very little there in terms of story yet to hook the viewer in.

But "How great Burnham is" is the one thing that scene DOESN'T tell us about. The Captain mentions it's time for Burnham to get her own command... and that's about it. What it SHOWS is, however, is that these are two people who have an excellent working relationship, who trust each other and know each other intimately, and that one of them (Georgiou) is just a bit wiser and more experienced than the other.

I think you're wrong here. The first episode establishes she has some sort of special bond with her adoptive father, Sarek beyond what Spock even had. It also establishes that she is *right* and her commanding officer is "wrong" even though her overall choices have horrible repercussions. It's all a "chosen one" arc set up for Micheal Burnham.

 

[fireproof78]

It also establishes that she is *right* and her commanding officer is "wrong" even though her overall choices have horrible repercussions. It's all a "chosen one" arc set up for Micheal Burnham.

It's not a "chosen one" arc if she is wrong.

 

[eschaton]

It's not a "chosen one" arc if she is wrong.

But she wasn't wrong, that's the thing. She made the wrong decision to attempt to disable her captain and take over the ship, but the narrative strongly suggests that she is right to say they should fire first, and the war would have been avoided if Georgiou listened to her.

Plus she gets her "redemption" at the end of Act 1 of this season anyway.

 

[BillJ]

It's been awhile since I've watched The Vulcan Hello, but I distinctly remember the opening was not the admittedly cool scene with Georgiou and Burnham in the desert. It was watching T'Kumva's mushmouthed, subtitled speech in front of a room of bald Klingons. It was anything but exciting - it was boring. Hell, I hated the Klingon scenes so much that I probably would have liked the first episode much, much better if they were edited out entirely.

You're actually right, now that I think about it. That doesn't exactly raise the quality of the episode in my mind.

 

[Mudd]

OTOH, Discovery seems to have moved on past the "Klingon War" story arc and being trapped in the waking nightmare that is the Mirror Universe is turning out to be WAY more interesting.

Nothing I'm hearing about it has been a persuasive reason to watch any more of the show. The Mirror Universe is purely fanwank - "Oh wow, Mirror Universe! Look, Vulcans have beards! Agonizers! Wheeee!"