Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x10 - "Despite Yourself"

[137th Gebirg]

I'm confused - Is it Culver or Culber? I've seen both thrown about a lot in various threads here. IIRC, closed captioning says "Culver", but IMDB says "Culber". And I'm pretty sure I heard a bunch of them pronounce it "Culver" on AfterTrek.

 

[Jaimito]

They don't know how it happened.

And after what the drive did to Paul they probably don't want to put anyone else through it.

probably get banned so that the canon is preserved.

 

[JD]

Where does the idea that the Culber who Tyler attacked was Mirror Culber come from? I haven't see anything to even hint that he wasn't exactly who he seemed to be.
I've seen a few people theorizing that they'd bring in the MU version to keep him around, but this is the first I've seen anyone say that the one we've been following was from the MU.

In "Through the Looking Glass," Prime Sisko told mirror Jennifer that he was going to meet with the Romulans to get their help against the Klingon-Cardassian alliance. She knew he was lying, but she gave no indication that the Romulans didn't exist. If they didn't exist, I suppose it's possible she just assumed they were a minor species she wasn't familiar with.

They did some stuff with the Romulans in the Mirror Universe book series from few years back, but I can't remember how they dealt with them.

 

[Tuskin38]

probably get banned so that the canon is preserved.

Unless they force all the other powers in the Galaxy not to use it, it has to be more then that.

 

[Fateor]

That’s not true. Any change made to the Defiant before it goes back in the Tholian web will impact the Mirror universe, as that’s where it ends up in the past. That’s what everyone is talking about with the potential loop and if the DSC crew use it to come Home in any way. The entire previous episode is about getting to the Info on the Defiant. If Prime Starfleet pulls it out of harms way, the DSC crew would not have any impetus for this story and would need another way home.

As I explained before.

Think of the universe's timeline like a reel of film, you have one reel for the timeline of the Main Universe, and a completely separate reel for the timeline of the Mirror Universe.

Now the Main Universe's film reel has the Defiant disappear through an interphasic rift.

While the Mirror Universe's film reel has the Defiant appear through an interphasic rift.

Now you edit the Main Universe's film reel to remove the part where the Defiant disappeared through the interphasic rift. While this effects future events that occur in the Main Universe's film real it does not effect the Mirror Universe's film real, because they are separate film reels.

So the Defiant still appears in the Mirror Universe because that's what time in the Mirror Universe says happened, even if there is no longer any precipitating event in the Main Universe.

Now, you may think that doesn't make any logical sense because linear events are quintessential cause and effect, but traveling between universes decouples linear events from each-other so you can end up with an effect the Defiant appearing in the mirror universe without the cause of it disappearing from the main.

 

[Tuskin38]

They did some stuff with the Romulans in the Mirror Universe book series from few years back, but I can't remember how they dealt with them.

They did ally with the rebellion IIRC.
Been a while since I read the 24th century mirror stories so I don't remember exactly what happened. I know they had a Praetor.

 

[Albinator]

The whole 'point' of science fiction is to entertain by showing something not technologically available in an interesting and entertaining way. You can also incorporate allegory, to make a point or mask your presentation of a political view or situation but it's not the "point' of science fiction or fantasy books, films or TV series <--- They're ALL meant primarily to entertain first.

Missing the forest for the trees and harping on semantics. Typical.

But to be blunt,. it's not an allegory the way you want to do it. Science fiction uses allegories to examine modern day problems through the veil of the future, to make issues more palatable, to make audiences more receptive to a message they would otherwise openly ignore. If we just told a story of African Americans being discriminated against, it would be easily dismissed by actual racists. But cover it in a veil of aliens and Federations, and maybe the message can get through to them.

If you want a more literal message show, go watch Law & Order.

 

[guyute03]

I'm confused - Is it Culver or Culber? I've seen both thrown about a lot in various threads here. IIRC, closed captioning says "Culver", but IMDB says "Culber". And I'm pretty sure I heard a bunch of them pronounce it "Culver" on AfterTrek.

Pretty sure it's Culber.

 

[oberth]

That’s not true. Any change made to the Defiant before it goes back in the Tholian web will impact the Mirror universe, as that’s where it ends up in the past. That’s what everyone is talking about with the potential loop and if the DSC crew use it to come Home in any way. The entire previous episode is about getting to the Info on the Defiant. If Prime Starfleet pulls it out of harms way, the DSC crew would not have any impetus for this story and would need another way home.

nope

tos has defiant as an 'ordinary' ship. there is no remark from spock about 'the ship that came out of nowhere some time ago' (there aren't that many connies that one more just doesn't count - they are not exactly like m4 shermans, are they?)

if they came back on board defiant (mirror universe) starfleet would not simply reuse her but most likely take her apart to find out what exactly had happened (they still have their regular defiant, don't they?)

strictly speaking they can't go back to their regular universe on defiant anyway as when they left it there was only one defiant supossed to be there until it would have vanished tos-wise. this is how parallel universes come into existence (well, one way we know so far - there may be others)

it's also a way to get so me fish into your pond

 

[oberth]

And the progression from taking it seriously in Discovery, as a mask of insecurity, to a more secure place in future shows, makes perfect sense, as their identity evolves over time.

The difference with the Romulans is that were always isolated, so the metaphor doesn't work. It works here very, very well in my opinion when T'Kuvma speaks to his followers after the Federation "comes in peace." Just as the alt-right doesn't care about peace with other cultures, they want to remain white, no immigrants soiling their territory, let alone their blood.

I think an even more interesting story would be a Federation world voting to leave the Federation. Maybe this world feels they're getting the short end of the stick of the alliance economically. Maybe a crisis on Andoria leads this world to other worlds pitching in to help, and this world feels like the other worlds in the Federation are getting more out of it than they are. Perhaps a new planet-- a sworn enemy of theirs-- applies for membership.

It could be a good metaphor for nationalism and Brexit.

being an american show why would they give a rat's ass for brexit?

 

[oberth]

Frankly, they could invent a new species to leave the Federation, but if you want the parallel to Brexit, it would be someone who is a close ally to Earth, so I'd go with Vulcan. Have them decide to leave, but there is a subsequent crisis that teaches them the lesson that being part of the Federation is better than being on their own.

not a chance in hell - the vulcans are logic

 

[Guy Gardener]

Vulcans are conditioned from birth to be logical.

Without that indoctrinated conditioning, they will be Romulans.

 

[oberth]

Vulcans are conditioned from birth to be logical.

Without that indoctrinated conditioning, they will be Romulans.

i think ambassador made that quite clear, without it they'd be extinct

 

[guyute03]

Spoiler: Spoiler for next episode

If that is Mirror Voq in next episode's preview why is he with the Rebels? Is he one of them?

 

[Noname Given]

Missing the forest for the trees and harping on semantics. Typical.

But to be blunt,. it's not an allegory the way you want to do it. Science fiction uses allegories to examine modern day problems through the veil of the future, to make issues more palatable, to make audiences more receptive to a message they would otherwise openly ignore. If we just told a story of African Americans being discriminated against, it would be easily dismissed by actual racists. But cover it in a veil of aliens and Federations, and maybe the message can get through to them.

If you want a more literal message show, go watch Law & Order.

No, SOME Science Fiction (and hell any communication medium to the general public) does that - but Star trek is PRIMARILY designed as entertainment and a for profit franchise first - always has been. I'm not missing anything here.

 

[Bandini]

Spoiler: Spoiler for next episode

If that is Mirror Voq in next episode's preview why is he with the Rebels? Is he one of them?

It looks a lot like him.

 

[Albinator]

being an american show why would they give a rat's ass for brexit?

The Captain is from the UK....?

As for the Defiant, I'll say it again:

IT'S NEVER SAID THAT THEY'LL USE THE SHIP TO GET BACK. Only that the Defiant is "the key to finding a way home."

 

[eschaton]

I wonder if Landry exists in this Mirror U.... what about Harry Mudd too

What if Landry crossed over from the MU with Lorca? It would explain why the two were close, and why she seemed so out-of-character for a Federation Officer.

 

[oberth]

The Captain is from the UK....?

As for the Defiant, I'll say it again:

IT'S NEVER SAID THAT THEY'LL USE THE SHIP TO GET BACK. Only that the Defiant is "the key to finding a way home."

why don't we waint until we know whether and 'if yes' how they got back - i'd could come up with a truckload of stuff to say in those after trek shows being basicly correct but sending everybody as off as they can get -> kinda like 'into the forrest you go'

 

[cbl1]

Spoiler: Spoiler for next episode

If that is Mirror Voq in next episode's preview why is he with the Rebels? Is he one of them?

Spoiler

He is Klingon and Klingon's are rebels against the Terrans