Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x10 - "Despite Yourself"

[Tuskin38]

Well that's not what's happening, so it doesn't matter. Lorca never suggested taking the Defiant back with them, I believe his actual line is "we can find out how they made it over, it could be our ticket home." Basically, whatever happened to the Defiant, if they can figure it out, they could try to recreate with the Discovery.

This is why I think we won't actually see the Defiant 'in person'.

 

[Jayson1]

Actually, in rewatching episodes of DS9 and Enterprise over the past few months there's a lot more isolationist/nationalist talk amongst the Klingons than you'd think. It's sometimes subtle, sometimes indirect, but often dialog spoke straight to this "Klingon First" mentality. I think the one like that I can recall clearly is when in "The Drumhead" J'Dan says "the blood of all Klingons has become water." He continues, decrying the alliance with the Federation, and how it has turned them into a race of "mewling babies." There's many more instances.

Traditionally, Klingons have long had a disdain for other cultures, up to and including outright bigotry; outside of Worf, Martok and Gowron, Klingon characters often looked down upon humans, and were outright adversarial even if they were allies.

I know that racism is part of their culture. It just feels like on "Discovery" they take it a little more serious than they do in the later seasons. I think in the future shows they are more arrogant and secure in their beliefs but on this show it comes off more from insecurity. I guess that does work as a metaphor for the alt right but to me it's kind of boring to watch. I think that metaphor would have worked better with the Romulans because they seem to really, really get into being isolated. They seem to go decades at a time where they have nothing to do with the Federation.

Jason

 

[ClintDagger]

If you're thinking of who I think you're thinking of - the Mirror Universe and all of its accompanying story arcs cannot, logically, be a commentary on that person, because those story ideas were conceived long before said person became active in politics.

Even "Despite Yourself" can't be a commentary on that person, because the episode simply derives from the MU as originally conceived, back in TOS' time.

I agree. That was my initial point actually; I don’t think they are making commentary on anything or anyone contemporary (nor do I think they should be). Somebody else disagreed and seemed to intimate the show was making parallels to something and I was just curious as to what that would be.

 

[Albinator]

I know that racism is part of their culture. It just feels like on "Discovery" they take it a little more serious than they do in the later seasons. I think in the future shows they are more arrogant and secure in their beliefs but on this show it comes off more from insecurity. I guess that does work as a metaphor for the alt right but to me it's kind of boring to watch. I think that metaphor would have worked better with the Romulans because they seem to really, really get into being isolated. They seem to go decades at a time where they have nothing to do with the Federation.

Jason

And the progression from taking it seriously in Discovery, as a mask of insecurity, to a more secure place in future shows, makes perfect sense, as their identity evolves over time.

The difference with the Romulans is that were always isolated, so the metaphor doesn't work. It works here very, very well in my opinion when T'Kuvma speaks to his followers after the Federation "comes in peace." Just as the alt-right doesn't care about peace with other cultures, they want to remain white, no immigrants soiling their territory, let alone their blood.

I think an even more interesting story would be a Federation world voting to leave the Federation. Maybe this world feels they're getting the short end of the stick of the alliance economically. Maybe a crisis on Andoria leads this world to other worlds pitching in to help, and this world feels like the other worlds in the Federation are getting more out of it than they are. Perhaps a new planet-- a sworn enemy of theirs-- applies for membership.

It could be a good metaphor for nationalism and Brexit.

 

[Nyotarules]

Now I'm wondering if the Romulans exist in the Mirror U. I can't remember ever seeing or hearing of them there.

Maybe they are a quiet lot in the MU , it seems some fans expect Terrans to be the opposite of what they are in the Prime universe as a species, but all the other aliens to be the same.

 

[Albinator]

Defiant wouldn't be that futuristic from Discovery's perspective - the Connies predate her launch.

But it would still have systems and upgrades from 10 years in their future. I was more commenting on the WTF nature that moment might have been seen as from a new fans perspective.

 

[Albinator]

In all seriousness, what dictator would they be commenting on?

I think he was making a joke. Did you see the smiley face? But I too feel like we're living in the mirror universe sometimes. The bizarro world where an American President is a reality TV star who thinks and speaks like a child, and the UK wants to destroy progress towards a world government.

 

[Jayson1]

And the progression from taking it seriously in Discovery, as a mask of insecurity, to a more secure place in future shows, makes perfect sense, as their identity evolves over time.

The difference with the Romulans is that were always isolated, so the metaphor doesn't work. It works here very, very well in my opinion when T'Kuvma speaks to his followers after the Federation "comes in peace." Just as the alt-right doesn't care about peace with other cultures, they want to remain white, no immigrants soiling their territory, let alone their blood.

I think an even more interesting story would be a Federation world voting to leave the Federation. Maybe this world feels they're getting the short end of the stick of the alliance economically. Maybe a crisis on Andoria leads this world to other worlds pitching in to help, and this world feels like the other worlds in the Federation are getting more out of it than they are. Perhaps a new planet-- a sworn enemy of theirs-- applies for membership.

It could be a good metaphor for nationalism and Brexit.

I have also always wanted to see a story about a Federation planet leaving the Federation. Almost got it with the Vulcans on DS9 but then they did "Way of the Warrior" instead and made the Klingons more important to the show. You know if they did that story in "Discovery" I have been thinking of who would be a good fit and the best I can think of is maybe the Trill.

We know they have been around since "TOS" times because of Jadzia stories and the guy who was a pilot I know was in Starfleet from a comic book I read once. They seem friendly enough still in the 24th century yet because of their secrets in regards to how many people can carry a symbiant I could see that being a reason to leave. Maybe the Bolians as well. I know almost nothing about their culture yet you see plenty of them as Starfleet officers and whatnot. Of course part of me just wants to see a Bolian and Andorian share a scene together.

Also if they ever do a story about refuges you got to use the Bajorans. Not sure how that fits with the established timeline of the Carddisian Occupation but if they want to fudge the date I would be cool with it.

Jason

 

[guyute03]

I wonder if Landry exists in this Mirror U.... what about Harry Mudd too

 

[Nyotarules]

I have also always wanted to see a story about a Federation planet leaving the Federation

You might never see one but you can read one in the A time to series

 

[Jayson1]

I wonder if Landry exists in this Mirror U.... what about Harry Mudd too

I would like to see Mudd and Landry as well. In fact I think Mudd has a good shot of either being the Emperor or the Captain of the Defiant. Might be fun if Landry is actually Burnhams best friend in the mirror universe. Also would be funny to see her die in a equally dumb way as the real Landry went out. Who knows maybe she is in charge of the agony booths.


Jason

 

[ClintDagger]

I think he was making a joke. Did you see the smiley face? But I too feel like we're living in the mirror universe sometimes. The bizarro world where an American President is a reality TV star who thinks and speaks like a child, and the UK wants to destroy progress towards a world government.

Ah, most people I encounter are good and decent people. I don’t get caught up in the drama of politics because it’s all manufactured TBH. And stuff like Trek provides a nice escape from all of that if you do get caught up in it.

 

[Albinator]

Ah, most people I encounter are good and decent people. I don’t get caught up in the drama of politics because it’s all manufactured TBH. And stuff like Trek provides a nice escape from all of that if you do get caught up in it.

How does this have any relation to what I said?

 

[Albinator]

I have also always wanted to see a story about a Federation planet leaving the Federation. Almost got it with the Vulcans on DS9 but then they did "Way of the Warrior" instead and made the Klingons more important to the show. You know if they did that story in "Discovery" I have been thinking of who would be a good fit and the best I can think of is maybe the Trill.

We know they have been around since "TOS" times because of Jadzia stories and the guy who was a pilot I know was in Starfleet from a comic book I read once. They seem friendly enough still in the 24th century yet because of their secrets in regards to how many people can carry a symbiant I could see that being a reason to leave. Maybe the Bolians as well. I know almost nothing about their culture yet you see plenty of them as Starfleet officers and whatnot. Of course part of me just wants to see a Bolian and Andorian share a scene together.

Also if they ever do a story about refuges you got to use the Bajorans. Not sure how that fits with the established timeline of the Carddisian Occupation but if they want to fudge the date I would be cool with it.

Jason

Frankly, they could invent a new species to leave the Federation, but if you want the parallel to Brexit, it would be someone who is a close ally to Earth, so I'd go with Vulcan. Have them decide to leave, but there is a subsequent crisis that teaches them the lesson that being part of the Federation is better than being on their own.

 

[Gonzo]

Just watched the episode, it set up some interesting possibilities:

Did the Buran also change places with its duplicate.
What will the Mirror Disco do in the prime universe.
Will Culber live and from which universe is he from.


Tyler wasn't really a surprise at all.

 

[Tuskin38]

Will Culber live and from which universe is he from.

Yes and not Mirror.

 

[jaime]

How does this have any relation to what I said?

He’s basically saying he doesn’t want to talk politics, and has neither agreed nor disagreed with your stance on Trump or Brexit, and likes Trek to provide a bit of escapism from all that. Which is fair enough.

 

[Gonzo]

Yes and not Mirror.

Yeah it has been said in interviews that Culhber isn't going anywhere, however they could mean the mirror version assuming that the Culber that Tyler attacked is not the duplicate.

Just to clarify I like the character and Stamets and was surprised they would have Tyler go so far so soon.

 

[Tuskin38]

Yeah it has been said in interviews that Culhber isn't going anywhere, however they could mean the mirror version assuming that the Culber that Tyler attacked is not the duplicate.

Just to clarify I like the character and Stamets and was surprised they would have Tyler go so far so soon.

They said on After Trek they're not doing a Mirror Culber.

 

[Noname Given]

But if you showed racism the same way it is in real life (human on human) then it's not really science fiction. The whole point of sci-fi is to illuminate controversial themes using aliens, technology, and allegories instead of the real thing.

The whole 'point' of science fiction is to entertain by showing something not technologically available in an interesting and entertaining way. You can also incorporate allegory, to make a point or mask your presentation of a political view or situation but it's not the "point' of science fiction or fantasy books, films or TV series <--- They're ALL meant primarily to entertain first.