Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
It's always tempting to take down the rugged male heroic character a peg or two during the course of a given film. But there certainly was alot of clowning around from men in this one. Poe is all over the place - with the film's matriarchs basically sayin' "he's a naughty boy but, aah, isn't he cute?" and giving him a slap on the wrist. Finn -- for me -- is a non-character in this film. He was a good character in the last one but in this one nothing he did impacted on me. The Finn - Rey thing they also did nothing with. Either do it Mulder-Scully style, do a proper relationship or forget the whole thing. But there's no convincing warmth between these two in this film. It's just going through motions with the writers -- 'oh, btw, let's shove in some cryptic relationship dialogue with Chewie before we forget to do it'.
I do miss Luke doing his thing like he did back in the day. One expects that and when one doesn't get it, you do get disappointed. Despite that, I don't object what they did with him creatively, it was interesting that he never physically left his place of exile.
I don't think they did much with Leia either bar those FX scenes and some reflection re. her son. I felt there was promise of character progression from the last film that wasn't delivered here.
The thing with Ren is that he seems to be a flakier, less powerful character in this film than the first film yet he's still able to take out Snoke.
So now instead of two menacing characters leadin' the way, like with Vader and Palpatine, we've two flakey characters in the form of Ren and this Hux guy. Hux is like a 1970s British comedy villain doing a Star Wars sketch. The silly straight man dialogue at the beginning of the film just robbed him of any seriousness. Laurel and Hardy runnin' the First Order means the writers are going to have their work cut out to make the "First Order" something other than a weaker parody of the Empire.
Despite all that I very much enjoyed the film, there was genuine twists and surprises throughout. I suppose in sum however, there was too many subplots occupying too much room that should've been given over to character progression. The Finn and Leia characters are the biggest victims of this, imo. If Ren is going to take over, present him as a more stable and efficient villain to ensure that the "First Order" has backbone. He's too clownish atm. That's my thoughts on this after some reflection.
.
.
I do miss Luke doing his thing like he did back in the day. One expects that and when one doesn't get it, you do get disappointed. Despite that, I don't object what they did with him creatively, it was interesting that he never physically left his place of exile.
I don't think they did much with Leia either bar those FX scenes and some reflection re. her son. I felt there was promise of character progression from the last film that wasn't delivered here.
The thing with Ren is that he seems to be a flakier, less powerful character in this film than the first film yet he's still able to take out Snoke.
So now instead of two menacing characters leadin' the way, like with Vader and Palpatine, we've two flakey characters in the form of Ren and this Hux guy. Hux is like a 1970s British comedy villain doing a Star Wars sketch. The silly straight man dialogue at the beginning of the film just robbed him of any seriousness. Laurel and Hardy runnin' the First Order means the writers are going to have their work cut out to make the "First Order" something other than a weaker parody of the Empire.
Despite all that I very much enjoyed the film, there was genuine twists and surprises throughout. I suppose in sum however, there was too many subplots occupying too much room that should've been given over to character progression. The Finn and Leia characters are the biggest victims of this, imo. If Ren is going to take over, present him as a more stable and efficient villain to ensure that the "First Order" has backbone. He's too clownish atm. That's my thoughts on this after some reflection.
.
.
Last edited:
I know how the Trek movie plots go, yeah. But Kirk hadn't fundamentally changed to liking a desk job, had he? Luke seems fundamentally different (which I'm fine with) and I was searching for a way Kirk could seem so too.
I just read about how developed and energetic were the fan theories before TLJ came out. So ppl really kinda thought they knew what was coming and feel ... duped?
I just read about how developed and energetic were the fan theories before TLJ came out. So ppl really kinda thought they knew what was coming and feel ... duped?
The whole fan theory culture is so strange to me... Why spend a huge amount of your time determining potential spoilers...
You get the feeling that the First Order is suppose to seem a bit silly because they are all brainwashed idiots that want to return to the glory days that never existed. They can try to dominate the galaxy like the Empire did, but they just don't have the manpower to do it except through fear. Fear is the only way they can rule. And the only reason they could rule is because the Republic was a paper tiger. It was its fleet and nothing else it seems. There seems to be no real loyalty to the idea of the Republic, and unless the First Order has some sort of stable leadership that can run a government, most systems are going to go independent. The end of the large centralized government for the first time in well over a thousand years. No Jedi to defend the Republic or act as mediators for conflicts. No Sith to send out Stormtroopers to cow the local population into line. Sure the First Order can send out stormtroopers, but they can't have nearly enough for the task unless they have a whole lot of pro-Imperial worlds that are just waiting to join up and start recruiting new Stormtroopers to fill in the ranks with the First Order's trained from childhood troopers, or adding in a new cloned army to their ranks. I could see Kylo Ren ordering the creation of a clone army come to think of it....Darth Vader....or rather Anakin Skywalker was a leader of clones.
The Resistance isn't all that much better, being that only one transport remains with the entire group...even if that one transport is the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy. They have one more or less Jedi and the surviving leader of the Resistance....Leia Organa Solo....the last light side using Skywalker. They have allies out there for sure. Unless the First Order is more efficient than they look and hunted everyone else down before coming for Leia. For all we know the Mandaloreans under House Kryze are still there following the Civil War. Lothal could still be a place outside the First Order's control. Bespin might be too remote for the First Order to pick at for now. There are plenty of places that could have friends or at least those that don't want a return to Imperial standards of living.
The Resistance isn't all that much better, being that only one transport remains with the entire group...even if that one transport is the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy. They have one more or less Jedi and the surviving leader of the Resistance....Leia Organa Solo....the last light side using Skywalker. They have allies out there for sure. Unless the First Order is more efficient than they look and hunted everyone else down before coming for Leia. For all we know the Mandaloreans under House Kryze are still there following the Civil War. Lothal could still be a place outside the First Order's control. Bespin might be too remote for the First Order to pick at for now. There are plenty of places that could have friends or at least those that don't want a return to Imperial standards of living.
With TLJ, it's because Abrams and Kennedy set up several mysteries in TFA and the TLJ basically punts on all of them.
How do you make the spoon bend?
~ There is no spoon.~
Although, I do think there is still a cart and horse. That Abrams and Kennedy set up all these mysteries without a way to resolve them and ostensibly came up with the answers we got as they were crafting the script for TLJ.
I don't know, he kept taking desk jobs for some reason. At least we only have to see Luke go through losing and regaining his mojo once.
Boredom.
Nope.
Given the Kenobi-theory, not so much a stretch.
OT: Does anyone know if they're planning to do a Kenobi movie at some point? Next year ASAIK there should be the Solo-movie (if they get it done by then), 2019 ep 9... are there rumours aside from the next trilogy for further one-off movies?
Both a Kenobi and Fett movie were spitballed and rumored to be on the slate. As well as a new trilogy after IX, that won't belong to the numeral series.
Director Stephen Baldry has been linked to it.
Yup.
And then Chewbacca...
Sorry, when those things happened in the EU I was like, "Um, no., 100% no."
And that's when the EU became not for me. I'm glad people still like it but these films were something that I felt I could step in to without worrying about the back story.
That’s funny because I am having the same reaction to the sequel films. I thought the EU handled the post-ROTJ future history much better than the sequels so far. I don’t begrudge the sequels for going their own way (though they do take inspiration from the EU). It makes sense to chuck the EU and start fresh so moviegoers wouldn’t be required to read tons of old books, comics, or play the video games to get the post-ROTJ story. I was okay with Chewbaccas’s death and how it impacted the Solo family in the NJO more so than the major deaths in the sequels. I also enjoyed Jacen and Jaina more than Kylo Ren and Rey. And Anakin Solo became one of my favorite Star Wars characters. I also loved the Yuuzhan Vong which would've been fresher enemies than the First Order.
It's probably worth remembering that (unless I'm mistaken) we've only seen the events of what amounts to a few weeks from the beginning of TFA to the end of TLJ. A lot happened in a sort space of time, not least of which being the decapitation of the Republic; the political, bureaucratic and the military apparatus all wiped out in one fell swoop. Even with the best intentions it's bound to take a while for all the systems not already leaning towards the First Order to even get a clear picture of what's going on, let alone coordinate any kind of response.
I think very few systems have anything like the economic, political and military clout to go fully independent, so I think what we're likely to see is a lot of factions banding together. I can see a lot of the old Rebellion supporting worlds trying to pull back some semblance of a free, united democracy, many of the old hardcore Imperial worlds leaping to join the First Order, even some of the old Seperatist systems banding back together and saying "bugger the lot of you", and a whole bunch of smaller less powerful worlds either surrendering out of fear or sitting on the sidelines, waiting to see who's likely to come out on top. The Hutts and similar criminal organisations may even make a move to start expanding their grip on the outer rim since there'd be nobody left to stop them anymore.
As for the First Order themselves, I think they're deluded and their plan is doomed to fail. The problem with that is they're liable to cause irreparable damage in the process. Their core goal seems to be to tear down everything they don't like, with no clear or intelligent plan as to what or indeed how to build something viable in it's place. Say what you will about Palpatine, he knew what he was building and why.
To each their own. I am finding more to connect with Rey and Kylo than the Solo twins. I tried and read through the NJO and the Young Jedi Knight Series but the characters never resonated with me.
Do I really need to dredge up the multiple instances of people directly involved with the Sequel Trilogy and Star Wars in general going out of their way to make it clear, short of saying exactly what we learned in TLJ, that Rey's parentage wasn't as important or mysterious as fans thought and that Snoke's backstory wasn't all that important?
It's a little bit sad that. even after nearly two years of us being told that the "mystery boxes" people thought they saw laid out in TFA were not actually that mysterious, some people still won't "wake up and smell reality".
It's a little bit sad that. even after nearly two years of us being told that the "mystery boxes" people thought they saw laid out in TFA were not actually that mysterious, some people still won't "wake up and smell reality".
Welcome to fandom.
Not just Rey's parentage and Snoke's identity were first referenced and alluded to in TFA.
The fall of Luke and why he went into hiding?
How did Kylo fall to the dark side and how did Snoke manage it?
Who made the map to Luke Skywalker? Why did the First Order have most of it, but R2 had the missing piece? And if it's a map, that means it's charted space. But Leia and the Resistance said the map didn't correlate with any known galaxies/star charts.
Why Leia is still leading the rebels, when she should be in command of the Republic's forces?
Where the First Order came from and how they have the manpower, money and resources to build planet sized Death Stars?
Why Anakin/Luke's lightsaber called out to Rey, when she has no familial connection to the Skywalkers? Despite Abrams saying in interviews that Leia and Rey have a familiarity to one another, and possibly know each other. Same with Han, hence him asking who she his.
Also, why Rey had a vision of the hall on Bespin/Cloud City), where Luke and Vader fought. That spot is significant to Luke and Anakin, but Rey is a nobody. Why does the Force care to give Rey visions of it?
I'm sure there are more examples, but I can't think of everything. I'm pretty certain Abrams, Kennedy and the writers reversed engineered most of these mysteries they set up while crafting TLJ. Not really thinking about it when they were remaking ANH, as TFA.
Btw, how did Maz Kanata get Luke's blue lightsaber from Cloud City?
~A story for another time.~
Similar threads
- Sticky
- Poll
