99.99% of people who like Star Wars haven't, either.
Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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99.99% of people who like Star Wars haven't, either.
Methinks you don't know what you're talking about.
I'm not attached to attaching Rey to any legacy characters, but there's definitely an out if they want to say those people who traded her were just fostering her or some other form of caretakers or kidnappers or had her under some other circumstances. I think that would be bad storytelling, but Kylo is working off of Rey's own memories for that, so if she wasn't aware of her own situation then he wouldn't be aware of it either.
Which is hinted at when she's supposed to be the polar opposite to Ben - the force likes to balance things out. Maybe not quite in the way of Anakin but that the force at least contributed.
Still don't understand why we even needed Rose's character? Sorry, she was completely unnecessary, came out of the blue just to wax some morals. And as badass as she turned out to be, I also didn't need Dern's character... because IMO Leia should played that role as strong leader.
And I'm also not sure where you actually detect some kind of "arc" for Rey's character. There was no arc. She had more of an arc in TFA.
I agree with your assassment of Luke's arc - I liked it, even though I think his death could have been handled better.
Not sure yet whether I'll see this movie again. The Rose-Finn-plot and the unnecessary withholding of information and therefore making Poe look stupid aren't really very enticing.
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Methinks you don't know what you're talking about.
Rey did have an arc. She went from needing someone to teach her and to follow, to someone determined to teach herself and chart her own destiny, as evidenced by her theft of the Jedi texts. She started out needing a master, and ended as her own master.
As I already said, the sabres themselves are just machines. Metal and wires. The bonded crystal within however is alive in the force and it's nature allows the wielder to more easily focus and channel their connection to the force. It works best for the person who bonded the crystal (Anakin, in this case) but that doesn't mean it can't work well for others. How much of that is the crystal's doing, or simply the will of the force being expressed through the crystal is still unclear. Probably intentionally.
So when Rey touched the hilt, her connection to the force suddenly got cranked up to 11 and that manifested as a force vision. That's it. The sabre itself didn't do anything.
I still need to watch it a second time, but IIRC Kylo implies that Rey knows the truth but she's suppressing the memory of her lowlife junker parents. This seems perfectly consistent with her talk with Maz in TFA: "You already know the truth. Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back."
If this sounds irrational then that's because it is. It's the irrational hope of an abandoned child that she held onto for so long, it became the only thing that kept her going. That's not something one lets go of easily or quickly, regardless of the facts.
Rose in thematically important to the movie because she represents the heart of the Resistance. She's not an arse kicking warrior, or a heroic leader she's the person does the boring dirty work because she's dedicated everything she has to helping others. Not because it's her destiny, or for revenge, because she's the best damn whatever in the galaxy, or because she's the chosen one. It's just because it's the right thing to do. She's basically filling the role of the droids from the OT as the "lowliest" person doing the most courageous thing.
As for Dern's character. I got the impression that Carrie wasn't very well (I mean she did have a heart attack just a few months after shooting) so I suspect that character was created to take some of the load off. Hence Carrie doing most of her scenes either sat down or standing still.
Well, but isn't that exactly where Finn comes in in TFA? He was a grunt, no hero, no leader, not one "destined" to greatness. Pairing him up with Rose IMO takes away from his arc. He again has to be told what to do, who to be and to let go of old thought patterns, to even sacrifice yourself for what's right (essentially, by ramming him at the end she even takes away a, certainly needless, decision to sacrifice himself). That's what I don't like.
Hm, but Leia could have been badass sitting down as well. That Dern was able to move around doesn't make her *decisions* badass, it's that she made them that makes her a stronger leader than Leia was here. Leia essentially floated in space, had some "Luke/Leia" moments with Luke through the force, then she lay around unconscious and then she sat around lamenting that there's no way out. And all the while she exchanges strange dialogue with Poe while Dern, Luke and Rey actually do something. That's not what I'd call a strong leader, that's too passive for someone who shot her way into a garbage chute once upon a time. (And I'm taking into account that she just lost Han and is confronting her son who just killed his father.)
Maybe it's the lack of background information about the New Republic. What role did Leia take on? How did Snoke come into power, especially apparently in the whole galaxy? The OT didn't much focus on the big picture but it was clear that there's a dictatorship that spans almost the entire galaxy, the senate was disbanded in ANH etc. Those tidbits of information are what's missing here.
She needed a teacher, not a master. And she didn't really leave because she decided to become her own teacher, but because she naively thought she could turn back Kylo from the dark - influenced by a link that was established by Snoke. And somehow we've already seen that in ESB and/or RotJ...
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Yes but Finn's arc in this movie was about his fixation on revenge, about doing damage to the enemy at all costs. Rose was there to show him who he should be.
It's not just a matter of sitting up or standing down. If a person isn't well, they get tired easily. Long days shooting scenes are draining and the more scenes an actor is in, the longer they're there and the more days they have to be on set. I'm sure if Carrie was up for it they would have done so. They did not, therefore she probably was not. That's just the reality of the situation.
This article and tweet, were making the rounds months ago.
https://moviepilot.com/p/disney-had-no-mapped-story-plans-past-the-force-awakens/4282165
Now it all makes sense. I was right. The cart was placed before the horse.
Kennedy, Abrams and Johnson (the writer and director for TLJ) did reverse engineer things from TFA. There was no plan of what to do after they unleashed their nostalgia and allusion trip in EP VII.
https://moviepilot.com/p/disney-had-no-mapped-story-plans-past-the-force-awakens/4282165
Now it all makes sense. I was right. The cart was placed before the horse.
Kennedy, Abrams and Johnson (the writer and director for TLJ) did reverse engineer things from TFA. There was no plan of what to do after they unleashed their nostalgia and allusion trip in EP VII.
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^ And yet the two films flow together very organically when you get rid of your perceptions, so I don't know what your point is.
You say that like it's unusual. Lucas had no specific plan of what tESB or RotJ would be until he made them. Just read the early drafts of either of their scripts to see how almost everything beyond the broad strokes changed from concept to final edit.
I’m pretty sure he said much the same re AOTC and ROTS; I seem to recall him saying that he knew where the characters would be at the end of the prequel trilogy but he didn’t know how they’d get there.
Well, it didn't work for a number of people. My own gripes with it, I've detailed.
My point here is to show that, yes. TPTB did indeed make things up as they went along. Starting off on the bad foot with me, because I hate redundant and pointless remakes of movies I've already seen and own.
Difference is, at the time, Lucas was doing something new. Releasing his own imagination on to the pages. Kennedy and co started by remaking a previous movie in the series (a la Superman Returns, Jurassic World, Prometheus, Ghostbusters 2016, Indiana Jones 4, Star Trek Into Darkness), peppering it with several mysteries going forward, and then coming up with an unsatisfying follow-up to their first film.
Thing is, if TLJ had been EP7 and not EP8. I'd probably enjoy it more. I think the things that don't work in TLJ are the the things they had to bring over from TFA.
Isn't that a perception in itself, you're belief the two films flow together organically?? Isn't that the definition of an opinion? Just asking, not trying to be snarky.
Far from it. Out of 10 of my friends/colleagues who went to see TLJ, I am the only one who has seen The Clone Wars. Some had heard of it, but none had heard of Rebels or frankly any of the tie-in novels. I didn't know there was an Asohka book.
A very high percentage of Star Wars viewers, and even casual fans have no knowledge of, or interest in side projects, tie-in novels, Alan Dean Foster adaptations or Holiday Specials. Fans here might, but regardless of what people seem to think, we are the minority. However vocal and preposterous we might be.
Large amounts of people turn out for these films because of legacy, brand name, high end marketing and general quality. They've not turned up to TFA or TLJ after excitedly learning about how Threepio got a red arm.
Hugo - couldn't give a fig about the EU, new EU, either
You do realise that *all* of these movies have to come from someone's imagination, right? There's no sacred tablet of future events from which they're interpreting arcane clues as to how things should pan out in future movies. It's all just make believe, yes?
With the exception of authors who have a *very* precisely planned book series, this is how multi-part stories are done. You write one to be it's own thing, plant a few seeds and leave a few plot thread dangling so that they may or may not be picked up later. When and if you get a second swing of it, sometimes you might start with a general notion of where things are going, but the first story is out and the audience has reacted so something may be altered to adjust to this, or simply because a better idea has been thought up along the way. So some threads get dropped, some seeds may not end up bearing fruit and occasionally, certain ideas need to be dropped altogether lest one paint oneself into a corner.
In the case of TFA and TLJ, the "mystery" of Rey's parents is pretty much an invention of the fans reading into what was never there in the first place. TLJ just made it more explicit for those not paying attention the first time around. Presumably EpIX will have to resort to drawing a diagram since some people clearly still haven't caught on.
Like science, business doesn't really care what you do or do not believe. The fact is that the last jedi is seen as a shockingly massive flop, so whatever Disney planned to use from Rian Johnsons vision will now be scrapped. It's pretty much a certainty.
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