Korax also says that half the galaxy is learning to speak Klingonee rather than neese too! Is that a slip by the actor or how natives of Quo'Nos say their indigenous language? 
JB
JB
Agency of Female Characters
- Thread starter Pauln6
- Start date
Just watched the Enemy Within. This is another strong ensemble piece, even if there are some logic holes in the story and the annoying edit with the running order feels weird.
I'm happy that there might have been atmospheric conditions that prevented the shuttle going down and I can see that the early transporter fault prevented them from sending down electronic equipment but why not send coats, gloves, hats, tents and shelters?
The darkest part of the episode, particularly in the light of the Weinstein revelations, is not the assault on Rand but the way she is forced to confront her attacker after the event, surrounded by men, and the way she is disbelieved until another man backs up her story. She even says that she can understand his drunken behaviour and didn't want to get him in trouble!
This all the more horrible because this scene could have been the inspiration for the assault suffered by Grace a few weeks later that most likely led to her dismissal and the recent revelations show that 50 years later, things have barely improved!
I would have felt better about the whole thing if their second encounter in the turbolift had led to Rand bringing about Evil Kirk's downfall, if maybe she had been shown acting on her suspicions and finding Kirk in sickbay. It would only take small tweaks to give the women a bit more agency.
As it is, Sulu comes out of it the best, with some great one liners when he tries to stay chipper as he slowly freezes to death.
The Naked Time is a fun episode too. It's a good episode for Sulu and Uhura and I love Spock's meltdown. It's also the only time apart from TMP and STIV that all three of the recurring women appear in the same episode. It gives us Uhura at navigation and Rand at helm, albeit it's a shame that they don't get to stay there longer. Uhura working also shows some initiative when she tries to psych out Sulu and has her best one liner of the series.
Rand's presence at the briefing suggests that part of her duties might involve collating information, including scientific information, for presentations by senior staff. She might have a broad spectrum of basic scientific knowledge as part of her job and it's not hard to see how she could have been developed if they had just drawn a line under the Kirk relationship after this episode.
Less convincing is Reilly taking over engineering. Why are only two engineers on duty at such a critical time? Why did they both leave their posts unattended? How is it possible to block transfer to the auxiliary control room when you are only a junior officer? Did they use warp or impulse engines to escape?
It would have been fun if this one had been a two parter if only because it might have led to other two parters throughout the series run.
I'm happy that there might have been atmospheric conditions that prevented the shuttle going down and I can see that the early transporter fault prevented them from sending down electronic equipment but why not send coats, gloves, hats, tents and shelters?
The darkest part of the episode, particularly in the light of the Weinstein revelations, is not the assault on Rand but the way she is forced to confront her attacker after the event, surrounded by men, and the way she is disbelieved until another man backs up her story. She even says that she can understand his drunken behaviour and didn't want to get him in trouble!
This all the more horrible because this scene could have been the inspiration for the assault suffered by Grace a few weeks later that most likely led to her dismissal and the recent revelations show that 50 years later, things have barely improved!
I would have felt better about the whole thing if their second encounter in the turbolift had led to Rand bringing about Evil Kirk's downfall, if maybe she had been shown acting on her suspicions and finding Kirk in sickbay. It would only take small tweaks to give the women a bit more agency.
As it is, Sulu comes out of it the best, with some great one liners when he tries to stay chipper as he slowly freezes to death.
The Naked Time is a fun episode too. It's a good episode for Sulu and Uhura and I love Spock's meltdown. It's also the only time apart from TMP and STIV that all three of the recurring women appear in the same episode. It gives us Uhura at navigation and Rand at helm, albeit it's a shame that they don't get to stay there longer. Uhura working also shows some initiative when she tries to psych out Sulu and has her best one liner of the series.
Rand's presence at the briefing suggests that part of her duties might involve collating information, including scientific information, for presentations by senior staff. She might have a broad spectrum of basic scientific knowledge as part of her job and it's not hard to see how she could have been developed if they had just drawn a line under the Kirk relationship after this episode.
Less convincing is Reilly taking over engineering. Why are only two engineers on duty at such a critical time? Why did they both leave their posts unattended? How is it possible to block transfer to the auxiliary control room when you are only a junior officer? Did they use warp or impulse engines to escape?
It would have been fun if this one had been a two parter if only because it might have led to other two parters throughout the series run.
If only TOS had continued on with showing women in operational positions for the rest of the series.
It was only late into Season 3 that we saw another woman at the helm.
Would have loved to have seen Uhura have the conn at least once.
You have to wonder what happened after this episode.
Was it the popularity of Kirk/Spock/McCoy that made them forget about equality and a more idealistic, fair future or was GRs personal life affecting TOS's direction or was NBC objecting to women being in a position to command men, or something else...
It's strange but I'd never noticed how odd and bizarre Spock's behaviour towards Rand was at the conclusion of the episode until the last few years as well! Or if I did I probably dismissed it as a Vulcan thing but he has smirk on his face and treats Rand as if Kirk was a bit of a rascal in his other self which is pretty non sequitar!
IU wonder what happened to the alternate Kirk of the mirror universe and the mirror Rand in this scenario?
JB
IU wonder what happened to the alternate Kirk of the mirror universe and the mirror Rand in this scenario?
JB
In their original concepts, Spock and Rand were supposed to have quite a close working relationship, developing a sister - brother dynamic. He was observing that evil Kirk acted on his desires whereas Kirk would not. I can imagine them having some quite frank conversations on the subject as the show progressed.It's strange but I'd never noticed how odd and bizarre Spock's behaviour towards Rand was at the conclusion of the episode until the last few years as well! Or if I did I probably dismissed it as a Vulcan thing but he has smirk on his face and treats Rand as if Kirk was a bit of a rascal in his other self which is pretty non sequitar!
IU wonder what happened to the alternate Kirk of the mirror universe and the mirror Rand in this scenario?
JB
It is frustrating that Grace wasn't invited back for a couple of guest appearances in seasons two and three. There was definitely more to explore with Rand.
Agreed! She was in the annual every year as I recalled despite her disappearing after the first fourteen or so shows! As we know most of the women roles in the first season were written for her too...
JB
JB
I always wondered why so many of the comics also ignored Rand after her departure. She is the kind of mobile heroine who could have added quite a bit to many landing parties, especially if, as a female lead, she was given some agency in some of the stories. It was great to see her return in the Star Trek New Visions photo stories.
I would think that mirror Rand would have knifed the good Kirk for trying to buy her flowers.
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Maybe she was jettisoned out of an airlock for refusing the Captain's advances soon after he took command of the ship from Christopher Pike! 
JB
JB
That's where plot logic comes in and makes technobabble irrelevant.
The crisis at first did not seem severe. Sure, it was cold down there, but there was no hurry. But the heroes gradually found out things were bleaker than they at first seemed - and the wussy Kirk was always two steps behind. Sending stuff below would have been fine at the first hours of the crisis, but by the time Kirk might have come around to ordering this, his twin had already shot the key transporter doodad to hell. It's all about the human drama, rather than tech specs: Kirk being indecisive turns his mighty starship into a useless trinket.
On the tech side, beaming coats or log cabins would have helped for the first few hours of the ordeal, but nothing short of working spacesuits would protect Sulu and the extras against the indicated eventual coldness (especially if it was in Celsius rather than Farenheit). Throwing rubber duckies to people drowning in a hurricane is cruel and nothing else.
Seems unnecessarily dark. Obviously the part where she accuses Kirk would be disbelieved by Kirk - there's zero reason for Kirk to placate the madwoman with "Yes, I did it, didn't I, please go on" or anything absurd like that.
Fisher is disbelieved, too - him being male helps him exactly zip.
Indeed, take any random "written for Rand" yeoman from the early episodes and you see duties like this - menial "secretary" stuff that in 21st century view must and, more importantly, can be reinterpreted as the machines doing the menial part and the person adding some sort of expertise.
In light of this, it's actually a shame that TNG drops the expendable yeo(wo)man character from away missions. People in the eighties would expect automation, at least portable dictating machines if nothing else, and would be forced to believe in the expertise.
Do we really have to ask this? There might have been strict and clear-cut regulations for the presence of fifty people there, but one of them decided to give a mime recital in the nude and the others went to fetch their whiffle bats and funny hats.
One might assume mechanically - just pull a suitable plug. After all, Riley is in the place for plug-pulling, and probably has the competence.
No telling, but they sure as hell used the antimatter powerplant. If impulse engines as such sufficed, general Trek logic would suggest they would not need the power from the antimatter system and would run on a power source of their own. But general Trek logic also probably allows for extra power from the antimatter reactor, and this situation might call for that.
As the result, the ship is "traveling faster than would be possible in normal space", but since they are in a very abnormal environment, i.e. time warp, this may be true of warp drive as well.
Seconded! All sorts of ripple effects from the adoption of cliffhangers and ongoing storylines...
Timo Saloniemi
Yes, I think it might be Kirk's lack of foresight but that said, the Captain should not be expected to give every order on the ship. The transporter chief or medical officer would surely have authority to implement survival protocols for stranded crew? It always seems odd to me that landing parties don't carry much in the way of equipment normally. I know their uniforms can vary temperature but that doesn't help their hands or ears.
I suppose Fisher would just be corroboration of Rand's account to add weight to her 'unlikely' testimony but that, plus Fisher, plus McCoy, plus Kirk's fingerprints and DNA should have been enough to at least confirm to her that her account was credible enough to be believed and that the matter would be investigated [by someone other than Kirk].
If random people are going to take over the ship, I'd rather it was shown to be more like Mission Impossible rather than a drunk bloke taking a leak in the auxiliary power circuits.
Plus, having the auxiliary power links dependent on circuits in main engineering is just bonkers.
"Sir, main engineering has taken heavy damage."
"Switch to auxiliary control."
"We can't sir, the auxiliary control bypass circuits are in main engineering."
"You're fired."
Even if someone can set up a firewall to prevent switching (to or from either) you would have thought that this would not be a simple task and resolving it would be a straightforward computer issue. Still, it does suggest that Reilly is a better engineer than command officer.
Possibly. Then again, perhaps the Captain doesn't want the landing party to be extracted quite yet? Theirs to do and die - survival is secondary to the mission, and the transporter chief shouldn't have authority over that.
A lot of the mess falls on Spock's lap - his Vulcan style of leadership, with absolute priorities and discouraging of initiative, fails him in "The Galileo Seven", but may also affect the way he drops pretty much everything else when prioritizing the protecting of Kirk's reputation and the capture of the impostor.
A perfect impostor is a pretty alarming threat, really, and one that might warrant not just putting the current mission on a back burner, but inconveniencing the personnel involved. What if this is a devious Klingon plot? Or the appearance of an all-new, obviously malevolent species with great powers?
Having stuff routinely beamed down on demand would make sense. Too bad we didn't really see that in TOS, or in TNG for that matter. "Hand me the tricorder, Mr. Scott." "Aye, Sir, coming right down!"
And nothing suggests otherwise - Kirk is justifiably incredulous till the end of the exchange, but has to confront the facts when Spock puts them into words even a wussy like him can understand.
But he is the commanding officer. This is no time or place for legal niceties: the rights of the victim are irrelevant when the aim of the investigation is to capture an intruder.
The point being, it becomes a lot easier when more or less the whole crew is drunk. It's not as much a case of "taking over" as it is one of "catching control when others let it drop".
Or that Scotty has lots of experience with concealing a state of intoxication, but is operating at a much diminished capacity here.
Timo Saloniemi
In TMP there is a transporter console on the bridge. I initially thought it was an emergency transporter for crew but apparently it is for rapidly delivery of necessary equipment. I suppose by TNG stage this would effectively be an equipment replicator.
Kirk investigating himself is very silly but it's a common trope in many dramas. It's as daft as people sitting down at a laptop or PC in an office or police environment and just logging in to confidential files. We all have to lock and password protect our screens these days and, apparently, fingerprint, iris, and voice recognition can tell if someone is dead or recorded even with our current level of technology!
But Kirk isn't investigating himself. He has sidestepped all that already, as not only does he have an alibi, but the very possibility of an intruder turns the investigation on its head. The attempted rape charges aren't the ones being investigated here at all, and indeed should not be investigated until the more serious matters are out of the way.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
Yeah but only because they changed the running order. The old, it wasn't me it was my exact double, excuse should not be accepted as Gospel from the prime suspect!
Oh hang on, they had just had the salt vampire last week. Pretty much a standard defence then I guess...
In terms of agency, even though she does fancy Kirk, there's a line Rand also doesn't want to cross. Was it just the fact that he was drunk and violent that put her off? Would she still have turned him down if he'd used charm instead of force? In terms of the episode only it would have made a huge difference but modern storytelling would have had great fun with that going forward too.
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One might take Spock's odd banter at the end as insight: he knows Rand has the hots for Kirk, and Kirk for Rand, but they don't know it yet, so it's quite significant that "half of Kirk" clumsily tried to breach Rand's comfort zone. This is not an endorsement of the act of attempted rape (if it was that) but a heads-up at recognizing the significance when it comes to the whole Kirk, who never ever has dared as much as look at Rand's legs before (and still won't as late as "Miri").
I doubt it's a matter of "lines" as such, as much as it is a matter of having time to think. Given this time, Rand might have decided either way: it would be insane to let Kirk get closer, what with all the practical consequences and the fact she doesn't actually even like the guy all that much - or it would be a good idea to fabricate a ring and propose to him at the next possible opening, and hopefully half his subconscious isn't offended now and motivated to turn her down. Neither type of consideration would be relevant in her initial reaction, and nor would any conscious, intellectual-emotional hard limits she would already have established regarding a possible relationship with Kirk.
Timo Saloniemi
I doubt it's a matter of "lines" as such, as much as it is a matter of having time to think. Given this time, Rand might have decided either way: it would be insane to let Kirk get closer, what with all the practical consequences and the fact she doesn't actually even like the guy all that much - or it would be a good idea to fabricate a ring and propose to him at the next possible opening, and hopefully half his subconscious isn't offended now and motivated to turn her down. Neither type of consideration would be relevant in her initial reaction, and nor would any conscious, intellectual-emotional hard limits she would already have established regarding a possible relationship with Kirk.
Timo Saloniemi
There is actually an image of that on Deviant art!Maybe she was jettisoned out of an airlock for refusing the Captain's advances soon after he took command of the ship from Christopher Pike!
JB
Yes I don't think it was the writer's intention that Spock was OKing the attempted rape.
Maybe he was trying to downplay it all to make Rand feel better but it was badly said. No wonder Rand gave him a filthy look.
What I was concerned about in the episode was that when Rand accused Kirk of attempted rape, she was placed in front of Kirk making her accusation without any serious support or representation. I would have thought she'd have a senior female officer to assist Perhaps Uhura or even Chapel. Spock was hardly acting impartially and neither was McCoy. Maybe that's what happened in the 60s.
What would have happened if Fisher hadn't backed her up. Would everyone have taken Kirk's word over Rand ?
I'm not familiar with Deviant Art, Paulie! Have you a link?
JB
Watched Mudd's women today. It is a bonkers plot and nobody but Eve comes out of it looking good but she's actually a decent character, intelligent, principled, and willing to take her destiny into her own hands even if her ultimate goal to be a housewife is perhaps setting her sights a little low.
The plot definitely suffers from having no female crew to interact with the women. Either Chapel or Rand could have brought something to the story.
And obviously Eve's mutant power to apply hairspray and lipstick after eating gelatin is a mystery worthy of a sequel.
The plot definitely suffers from having no female crew to interact with the women. Either Chapel or Rand could have brought something to the story.
And obviously Eve's mutant power to apply hairspray and lipstick after eating gelatin is a mystery worthy of a sequel.
