Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x06 - "Lethe"

[TheUsualSuspect]

Rated it another 8 - I enjoyed this one almost as much as I enjoyed "Choose Your Pain."

This felt like the kind of episode that seems to occasionally come along in series that have season-long story arcs - there's not quite enough meat on the stand-alone story, but there has to be room for the part that advances the longer story, even though this episode's part is not an earth-shaking development.

I would have been up for spending more time exploring the Vulcan political situation that was only briefly hinted at along with Michael and Sarek's backstory. But I guess if they had, maybe there wouldn't have been enough time for the Lorca and Cornwall parts which are presumably an important part of the season-long story.

All-in-all, though, I like Discovery more every week. Which is a very good thing, IMO.

 

[Longinus]

In hindsight this whole diversity talk before the show started was a bunch of crap. The gender ratio is as bad as ever and the clear majority of the characters are white like usual. The casting of Michelle Yeoh, Chris Obi, Rekha Sharma and Maulik Pancholy disguised this a bit before, but their characters didn't survive for long. And of course Voq/Tyler aren't played by two POC like most thought before the series started.

Yeah, that is really unfortunate. There was much talk about Star Trek's first female captain, female first officer duo, but after two episodes it it two guy in charge again.

 

[eschaton]

Despite all the issues I had with this episode, the depiction of the Vulcans was not one of them. This episode fit very well with the ENT-era depictions of Vulcan culture, and it didn't directly contradict anything from the series which came later chronologically. Logic is not some thing which leads you invariably to the proper (nonviolent and nice) conclusion. It all depends upon the moral priors you start with. If you have very different moral priors to those of the Federation, you will reach different conclusions.

The biggest issue I had with the depiction of Vulcan was that the bigoted attitude of the Vulcan Science Academy openly conflicts with the Charter of the Federation, which establishes equal rights for all. It's possible it was amended as time goes on however. Or perhaps the Vulcan Science Academy is a quasi-private organization, and Federation law thus does not apply.

 

[eschaton]

Yeah, that is really unfortunate. There was much talk about Star Trek's first female captain, female first officer duo, but after two episodes it it two guy in charge again.

Do we actually know Saru is male? I mean, I know he is played by a male actor, but we shouldn't make assumptions here.

 

[Amaris]

Despite all the issues I had with this episode, the depiction of the Vulcans was not one of them. This episode fit very well with the ENT-era depictions of Vulcan culture, and it didn't directly contradict anything from the series which came later chronologically. Logic is not some thing which leads you invariably to the proper (nonviolent and nice) conclusion. It all depends upon the moral priors you start with. If you have very different moral priors to those of the Federation, you will reach different conclusions.

The biggest issue I had with the depiction of Vulcan was that the bigoted attitude of the Vulcan Science Academy openly conflicts with the Charter of the Federation, which establishes equal rights for all. It's possible it was amended as time goes on however. Or perhaps the Vulcan Science Academy is a quasi-private organization, and Federation law thus does not apply.

One of my favorite Star Trek episodes of all time is DS9's "Take Me Out To The Holosuite," and we saw an entire ship full of Vulcans being bigoted. It's sad, but yeah, there are Vulcan bigots. I actually like that this is so, though. One of my favorite Trek novels is Diane Duane's "Spock's World," because it presented us an actual complex society that didn't always fall in line. Vulcans aren't the one note wonders some people think they are, and that was clear even in TOS. So this works, and it's consistent.

 

[Noname Given]

Vulcan has no moon! Idiots.
Didn't get the klingons right. Didn't get that right.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VulcanHasNoMoon

to be fair, neither did the Animated Series.

Or the theatrical relase of ST:TMP.

 

[Michael]

I liked “Lethe” and rated it 7 out of 10. Although, I can't quite put my finger on it, but I somehow felt this was a step down from last week's episode. Something about the plot felt off and disjointed. But I still enjoyed watching it. If this is the new norm for the show, I'm a happy Trekkie.

I can easily look past any flaws in this episode because of the revelation that Sarek picked Spock over Michael and how beautifully it fits with established canon. That alone made this episode an instant "10" for me. For the first time, Discovery IS Star Trek to me. Well done!

Yes! That's easily what saves the episode for me. The Spock/Sarek relationship makes much more sense now. I'm really happy with the way they have woven together her backstory with what we knew of Spock/Sarek.

Really surprised to see so many people seem to have a problem with James Frain as Sarek, though, as I think he pretty much nails the part. All the other Vulcans in this episode, though, felt weak to me. Especially that guy from the Vulcan Expedition.

I really like Admiral Cornwell in this episode. I hope she doesn’t perish, and I felt shocked that she’d now had to suffer under the Klingons.

Yes, love Admiral Cornwell, too. She's just a cool character. I don't think she's a goner yet or else they would have shown her death in this episode, I think. Was almost convinced they would show Lorca somehow sabotaging the shuttle. But his reaction to Saru's question whether they should try to save the Admiral was telling as well. Lorca is not a good man. And I got the feeling he's manipulating Burnham, too, in this episode. Was weird to hear her say she's glad to serve under a captain like him. I think he's the worst kind of captain.

Was nice to see the female Klingon with the forehead jewelry again.

Stamets was really weird in this. Also, have they now mastered using the s-drive without immediately endangering Stamets or did they just choose not to address it this time around?

 

[Jayson1]

As for whether Staments is still him or a mirror universe version ,what if he is both? Maybe their minds have merged together. That's why even though he is acting strange he still seems to know how to do his job and who everyone is. He might have something in common with Tuvik.

Jason

 

[Cake]

Yeah, that is really unfortunate. There was much talk about Star Trek's first female captain, female first officer duo, but after two episodes it it two guy in charge again.

It is even so that all male main characters have higher ranks than Burnham and Tilly right now.

Do we actually know Saru is male? I mean, I know he is played by a male actor, but we shouldn't make assumptions here.

He was called Mr. Saru by other characters.

 

[Noname Given]

Maybe onscreen, but Picard did sleep with at least one and run into her at a Starbase during the show.

^^^
And after the hearing she presided over (His loss of the Stargazer); Picard was reinstated as Captain and got the 1701-D...Pattern here?

 

[Amaris]

I liked “Lethe” and rated it 7 out of 10. Although, I can't quite put my finger on it, but I somehow felt this was a step down from last week's episode. Something about the plot felt off and disjointed. But I still enjoyed watching it. If this is the new norm for the show, I'm a happy Trekkie.


Yes! That's easily what saves the episode for me. The Spock/Sarek relationship makes much more sense now. I'm really happy with the way they have woven together her backstory with what we knew of Spock/Sarek.

Really surprised to see so many people seem to have a problem with James Frain as Sarek, though, as I think he pretty much nails the part. All the other Vulcans in this episode, though, felt weak to me. Especially that guy from the Vulcan Expedition.


Yes, love Admiral Cornwell, too. She's just a cool character. I don't think she's a goner yet or else they would have shown her death in this episode, I think. Was almost convinced they would show Lorca somehow sabotaging the shuttle. But his reaction to Saru's question whether they should try to save the Admiral was telling as well. Lorca is not a good man. And I got the feeling he's manipulating Burnham, too, in this episode. Was weird to hear her say she's glad to serve under a captain like him. I think he's the worst kind of captain.

Was nice to see the female Klingon with the forehead jewelry again.

Stamets was really weird in this. Also, have they now mastered using the s-drive without immediately endangering Stamets or did they just choose not to address it this time around?

Yeah, James Frain, as a younger Sarek, has absolutely nailed it as far as I'm concerned. Also, I love Amanda, and can see that fiery temper just beneath the surface.

 

[johnjm22]

I remind folks whenever they say this that Deep Space Nine was complete crap until the Cardassian concentration camp imposter episode. And that was still a one-off with the show not going anywhere until Odo found out about the Dominion.

And you can argue but you'd be wrong because gambling aliens.

We're 5 episodes in and the show has shown substantial improvement. Basically, the only Trek which was good from the beginning was TOS.

We're in a day and age where serialized television is a well oiled machine. There's tons of great dramas out there that are good from the get go. People are making excuses for STD by comparing it to the bad starts of other Trek series from over a decade ago, when we should be comparing it to its contemporaries of today (in terms of writing/acting/dialog/production quality ect).

We're six episodes in and the show's problems haven't been subdued. There's been no improvement at all. The "twists" are never setup well, the dialog is stiff and awkward, the characters aren't compelling. Burnham's dialog in sickbay this episode was down right embarrassing.

The show feels cheap in a lot ways.

I'm still going to continue watching. It's possible they can get this thing turned around. It can't get much worse honestly. No where to go but up.

 

[McDuff]

We're in a day and age where serialized television is a well oiled machine. There's tons of great dramas out there that are good from the get go.

Tell me five shows that are so much better than Discovery that you are watching right now?

I don't think it's fair to compare Discovery to the other Star Trek we love, because those are among the best sci-fi shows ever. Even if Discovery turned out the be my least favorite Star Trek show, it could still be among my top 15 favorite TV show ever. So I'm wondering what else do you watch that is so much greater than Discovery at the moment? I'm watching Got, The Orville, sometimes Marvels, etc, but then after a few shows I begin to struggle to find better shows. So, I'm wondering what Sci-fi TV shows (good luck!!) or what TV shows do you watch at the moment that are so much better than Discovery?

 

[Kemaiku]

^^^
And after the hearing she presided over (His loss of the Stargazer); Picard was reinstated as Captain and got the 1701-D...Pattern here?

She made him grovel for ~18 years, whereas this one gave a twitchy killer lunatic a weaponised ship for a quick bang. So there's a pattern in that Admirals are worse than even the most damaged captain?

 

[eschaton]

He was called Mr. Saru by other characters.

Remember "Mr. Saavik?"

 

[Longinus]

Really surprised to see so many people seem to have a problem with James Frain as Sarek, though, as I think he pretty much nails the part.

Yeah, he is really good. I'm usually not a fan of recasting old characters in Star Trek, but given that's what they're doing regardless, he is doing great job.

All the other Vulcans in this episode, though, felt weak to me. Especially that guy from the Vulcan Expedition.

Yeah. The Vulcan admiral was pretty decent, others, not so much. But it is unfortunately pretty common in Star Trek for random side character Vulcans to feel kinda weak and not very vulcany. It probably takes some dedication for actors to get the feel right and people who have only couple of lines don't bother.

As much complaints there has been about the Klingon redesign (also by me) I kinda wish they would have made the Vulcans a tad more alien this time. The thing that they did with the Romulan nose bridge and eye corner areas in ST:09 would have probably worked. Do they even have the goldenish make up that Spock and T'Pol had? The white Vulcans look rather pink here... though they already did in the Kelvin films... (I don't think Quinto Spock has the golden make up either.)

Was nice to see the female Klingon with the forehead jewelry again.

She looked rather interesting!

Stamets was really weird in this. Also, have they now mastered using the s-drive without immediately endangering Stamets or did they just choose not to address it this time around?

I was wondering about that too. But did they even use it? The effect lacked the silly looking wild spin it had previously, though the ship moved horizontally, rather than vertically as you'd expect with the standard warp.

 

[Mr Awe]

Yeah, that is really unfortunate. There was much talk about Star Trek's first female captain, female first officer duo, but after two episodes it it two guy in charge again.

Do you really think Lorca will be in charge for much longer?

 

[donners22]

Very solid episode for me. Added another dimension to both Lorca and Burnham. Really loving this show.

 

[Longinus]

Do you really think Lorca will be in charge for much longer?

I really hope he is not!

 

[Michael]

I was wondering about that too. But did they even use it? The effect lacked the silly looking wild spin it had previously, though the ship moved horizontally, rather than vertically as you'd expect with the standard warp.

That's the way they have consistently presented the ship arriving somewhere after using the spore drive. The spinning bit is only when they enter the mushroom kingdom.