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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x04 - "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry"

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Kira had a reason which was clearly stated (the occupation), Chakotay had a clear reason to hate Paris (Maquis) and Picard's aloof situation is called "acting". McCoy didn't like Spock, but it was written dif

The STD crew are all aloof to each other for no clear reason YET(except Tilly and that's portrayed as a slight character flaw) . Yes, we know why they don't like Michael but what's up with everyone else? The motivation was clear in all the examples from the other Treks you mention.

They have their reasons. In fact it's usually spelled out plain and clear in the dialogue, in my opinion.

Saru is upset with Burnham for what she did on the Shenzou. But he's also afraid of what she's capable of and wishes she wasn't on the Discovery. He didn't appreciate the way she used him as a threat detector for Ripper, even though when you think about it, not informing him makes the experiment 'purer', so she was being logical then. Saru has been on the ship for less than six months. He is a naturally aloof sort of alien. Notice he drinks tea alone. He does have some reservations about Captain Lorca's methods and I presume he hopes his more cautious approach will help to temper Lorca's fearless and aggressive tendencies when it comes to ship's protocols and command decisions. He also appears to be the sort to try to be polite and non-confrontational. That doesn't mean that he can't be passive aggressive when he wants to be. But he also seems to give credit where it's due and can be magnanimous at times. Plus we found out that he felt devalued by Burnham, that she didn't always treat him well before. This is supported by the novel set just prior to the events of the premiere.

Stamets articulated his reasons for being cranky and aloof to Burnham, having a mutineer dropped in his lap to babysit. But also has plainly stated several times why he's not happy with his role on the Discovery. He's been drafted into the war and had his research objectives changed against his will. This is a big issue and continues to be one. He's foremost a peaceful scientist who wants to innovate, push technologies further for the benefit of the Federation. He doesn't want to be the next Oppenheimer developing a weapon to be used to kill other species and therefore resents Lorca for constantly riding him. And yet we still get glimpses of his less pissed off side. His desire to communicate with his mushrooms. His softening towards Burnham when her scientific curiosity started shining through. His attempt to quip to Culber and play down his injuries. This guy has a dry sense of humor. I'd love to see that come out more.

Lorca is an 'ends justifies the means' type captain who values results over building ship rapport. He does appreciate loyalty, but it appears to be somewhat transactional or power based, rather than mutual. He can be charming, but it comes across as also calculated and a touch insincere. He has interests in how wat is waged and how to use the tools of war efficiently. Does that make him a war monger, though, as Stamets called him? Time will tell, in terms of how ruthless or driven to succeed at all costs he is. But Landry did offer her opinion about this and it was also a warning. And yet she seemed enamored of him, or at least driven to please him and pressured to perform. I don't know if this man is capable of making friends with his crew, that would mean seeing them as equals not assets at is disposal. He seems content to be the boss, the herder of cats, the bully, the cajoler - whatever gets results. In that regard I think he's a bit unpredictable and pretty fascinating. That doesn't make him a 'good guy' though, and certainly not the moral center of the show.

Tilly didn't want to be seen with Burnham initially because she's hyper-aware of her status and wants to advance in her career and keep up appearances that she's a model officer. She handled herself well on the away mission. She was calm and collected and did her job with aplomb. Yet she is socially awkward and runs her mouth off at times. That said, she's been reaching out to Burnham and trying to make friends with her. While Burnham has remained aloof at times, we still see in the latest episode a warming to her room-mate. Even the "Tilly..." sounded softer and more affectionate. Tilly deliberately bent the rules to help Michael with Ripper, and in return she gave the Cadet gratitude. There's definitely some bonding going on, even if it's tentative for now.

Perhaps the show would benefit from more around the conference table banter, but it seems to me that Lorca only consults when he wants to and prefers to keep the command decisions top heavy. Let's hope that in coming episodes we'll get different mixes of the crew and more glimpses as to other aspects of their back history and personality.
 
I decided to choose a 6/10 on this one. I'm finding everything to be very lazy. I've decided by this episode that I don't enjoy the klingon redesign it was a bad idea. The attitudes of the crew is becoming frustrating, its similar to Stargate universe and nuBSG in this regard. I'm finding that being a prequel and having the magic teleport engine that's never mentioned again difficult to accept (i actually face-palmed, when I saw everything spinning at twirling around).

I am really liking the format of the show, episodic trek wouldn't work in 2017, so i'm glad they are trying something different in that regard. I'm going to keep watching, but I'm starting to have concerns after this fourth episode.

(i'm sorry if something here was mentioned before, 66 pages is a lot to read through) :)
 
They have their reasons. In fact it's usually spelled out plain and clear in the dialogue, in my opinion.

Saru is upset with Burnham for what she did on the Shenzou. But he's also afraid of what she's capable of and wishes she wasn't on the Discovery. He didn't appreciate the way she used him as a threat detector for Ripper, even though when you think about it, not informing him makes the experiment 'purer', so she was being logical then. Saru has been on the ship for less than six months. He is a naturally aloof sort of alien. Notice he drinks tea alone. He does have some reservations about Captain Lorca's methods and I presume he hopes his more cautious approach will help to temper Lorca's fearless and aggressive tendencies when it comes to ship's protocols and command decisions. He also appears to be the sort to try to be polite and non-confrontational. That doesn't mean that he can't be passive aggressive when he wants to be. But he also seems to give credit where it's due and can be magnanimous at times. Plus we found out that he felt devalued by Burnham, that she didn't always treat him well before. This is supported by the novel set just prior to the events of the premiere.

Stamets articulated his reasons for being cranky and aloof to Burnham, having a mutineer dropped in his lap to babysit. But also has plainly stated several times why he's not happy with his role on the Discovery. He's been drafted into the war and had his research objectives changed against his will. This is a big issue and continues to be one. He's foremost a peaceful scientist who wants to innovate, push technologies further for the benefit of the Federation. He doesn't want to be the next Oppenheimer developing a weapon to be used to kill other species and therefore resents Lorca for constantly riding him. And yet we still get glimpses of his less pissed off side. His desire to communicate with his mushrooms. His softening towards Burnham when her scientific curiosity started shining through. His attempt to quip to Culber and play down his injuries. This guy has a dry sense of humor. I'd love to see that come out more.

Lorca is an 'ends justifies the means' type captain who values results over building ship rapport. He does appreciate loyalty, but it appears to be somewhat transactional or power based, rather than mutual. He can be charming, but it comes across as also calculated and a touch insincere. He has interests in how wat is waged and how to use the tools of war efficiently. Does that make him a war monger, though, as Stamets called him? Time will tell, in terms of how ruthless or driven to succeed at all costs he is. But Landry did offer her opinion about this and it was also a warning. And yet she seemed enamored of him, or at least driven to please him and pressured to perform. I don't know if this man is capable of making friends with his crew, that would mean seeing them as equals not assets at is disposal. He seems content to be the boss, the herder of cats, the bully, the cajoler - whatever gets results. In that regard I think he's a bit unpredictable and pretty fascinating. That doesn't make him a 'good guy' though, and certainly not the moral center of the show.

Tilly didn't want to be seen with Burnham initially because she's hyper-aware of her status and wants to advance in her career and keep up appearances that she's a model officer. She handled herself well on the away mission. She was calm and collected and did her job with aplomb. Yet she is socially awkward and runs her mouth off at times. That said, she's been reaching out to Burnham and trying to make friends with her. While Burnham has remained aloof at times, we still see in the latest episode a warming to her room-mate. Even the "Tilly..." sounded softer and more affectionate. Tilly deliberately bent the rules to help Michael with Ripper, and in return she gave the Cadet gratitude. There's definitely some bonding going on, even if it's tentative for now.

Perhaps the show would benefit from more around the conference table banter, but it seems to me that Lorca only consults when he wants to and prefers to keep the command decisions top heavy. Let's hope that in coming episodes we'll get different mixes of the crew and more glimpses as to other aspects of their back history and personality.

Thanks, that's a good recap, but I will assert that a reasonable expectation is to see some bonds that may have formed among the crew (minus Michael) of a ship of the line that has been at war for 6 months.
Qapla'.
 
Thanks, that's a good recap, but I will assert that a reasonable expectation is to see some bonds that may have formed among the crew (minus Michael) of a ship of the line that has been at war for 6 months.
Qapla'.
We really only got to meet the remainder of Discovery's crew in the last episode and everyone's focus was on combat. There will probably be banter in the coming episodes.
 
Thanks, that's a good recap, but I will assert that a reasonable expectation is to see some bonds that may have formed among the crew (minus Michael) of a ship of the line that has been at war for 6 months.
Qapla'.

I sincerely hope they explore that side of things more. Ship morale is definitely an ongoing issue. We saw in the latest episode just how much of a win the crew needed. It's tough when your XO is having to resort to hitting you over the head with tragic hail messages to motivate you to 110%. But, you have to admit it paid off. The ship is now buzzing with their success. Despite my seeming disagreement, I do also think we need to see where the friendships and loyalties are forming before they are severely tested. Which we all know they will be. But maybe that's the point. Perhaps there's no time for long term bonding; the way the war is going is dictating how people are acting and reacting. Still, we are only 4 episodes in. If the crew is still not clicking by the end of the season (or at least some factions of the crew), then I think we can worry more about the direction of the show.
 
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Thanks, that's a good recap, but I will assert that a reasonable expectation is to see some bonds that may have formed among the crew (minus Michael) of a ship of the line that has been at war for 6 months.
Qapla'.
These bonds don't seem to be an important part of the writing. Lorca and Landry had a military operational connection but she's dead now. Tilly is needy and is trying to suck up to Michael who can barely give a rat's arse about her. Saru and his ganglia have a nice symbiotic paranoia relationship. Stamets is a joy to be around as long as he's not around Michael, Tilly, Lorca and most of the rest of the crew. It's like Gilligan's Island.
 
The fourth episode of the series, continuing in the aftermath of the previous episode. Where to begin? From the beginning from the lead up to the opening battle simulation. The scene inside the synthesizer/replicator as it made Burnham's uniform was good. It is an effective lead into the episode proper. As is the scene in the turbolift between Saru and Burhnam, which is also an effective link to the previous episode. The line 'tell your threat ganglia to calm down' was a very good line.
As is Saru's response. However, one of the main plots of the episode involves the macroTardigrade, that is named 'Ripper.' The scientific process whereby Burnham investigates the nature of the Tardigrade is rather well done. They had done their work here. Too bad Landry didn't listen to her when she wanted one of 'Ripper's claws'. Landry really should have listened to Burnham about the fact that Ripper mightn't react well to sedation... But this is a really good example of 'Reality ensues'.
Tilly's role in this tale was done well, with her helping Burnham to accept Georgiou's will. We also get to see Lorca in action as the Discovery's captain. He pushes his crew to achieve, despite what barriers might be in the way. Particularly in the playback of the Corvan 2 distress call shipwide. Now to the Klingons... I wasn't that surprised that Voq had ate Georgiou, Klingons engaging in cannibalism isn't inconsistent with what has been established previously. The scenes between Voq and L'Rell (particularly on the Shenzhou) were quite well done.
The attack on Corvan 2 mainly serves as a push for the Discovery crew, to get the Spore Drive working. (Really, the Federation should have more sources of Dilithium. I guess that is background to the admission of Coridan in 11 years time...) The Spore Drive in action, is quite interesting, with the Discovery's rings spinning and the ship folding in on itself. That the Corvan 2 miners were rescued was just icing on the cake. Overall it was a good instalment in this increasingly interesting series. 8.5/10.
 
Rigel XII is also an unprotected Federation world with no defenses as Kirk reinforced in "Mudd's Women(TOS)," but that three-man operation may be very small potatoes and producing just enough for the miners to maintain their lifestyle and the dwellings and mining equipment at their settlement. Kirk says they need starship protection and cargo runs so they must be important enough to the Federation's overall supply of dilithium for Starfleet to commit a starship to the duty of monitoring and protecting Rigel XII.

And yes, I know they called them "lithium" crystals early in the first season of TOS but we all know what they meant. Not a retcon, just one of those things you just have to pretend was spoken differently.
 
Coridan was seemingly undefended during the Dominion war. According to the DS9 episode 'One Little Ship' The Vorta of the Jem'Hadar ship that attacked the Defiant stated that he was taking the ship to launch a surprise attack on coridan. He specifically says that he hopes the dilithium miners are as surprised as the defiant's crew and doesn't mention the possibility of any federation ships protecting the system.
 
My expectation is Ash Tyler will become Burnham's confidant. This remains to be seen of course.

Perhaps the show would benefit from more around the conference table banter, but it seems to me that Lorca only consults when he wants to and prefers to keep the command decisions top heavy. Let's hope that in coming episodes we'll get different mixes of the crew and more glimpses as to other aspects of their back history and personality.

"Ready room" style discussion ain't gonna happen on this show. Out of the main Discovery characters only Lorca and Saru are command level. Tilly is just a cadet, and Stamets is a science officer, but he's neither part of the bridge crew or chief engineer, so presumably he's not command rank either. And Burnham most certainly is not.
 
..I think it developed much quicker on previous Treks and with a shorter season I hope they speed it up.

I don't think that relationships developed quicker on earlier Treks. At best you had one pre-established relationship (Kirk/Bones, Riker/Troi, Sisko/Dax, Janeway/Tuvok, Archer/Trip) that might be relied upon or showcased in the first 4 episodes. Voyager did immediately try to foist the Paris/Kim friendship upon the viewer but I don't feel like that worked all that well, but at least they tried; and they did have Nelix/Kes. So maybe Voyager wins this time??? The rest of the series first few episodes were largely missions-of-the-week - the character building stuff didn't really come until later and over time. IMO.

These bonds don't seem to be an important part of the writing. Lorca and Landry had a military operational connection but she's dead now. Tilly is needy and is trying to suck up to Michael who can barely give a rat's arse about her. Saru and his ganglia have a nice symbiotic paranoia relationship. Stamets is a joy to be around as long as he's not around Michael, Tilly, Lorca and most of the rest of the crew. It's like Gilligan's Island.

Hmm. I can't agree with any of this characterization. The one I was going to partly agree with was about Stamets and Burnham, but in only their second episode together I feel like Stamets and Burnham are already bonding as scientists.

...Landry really should have listened to Burnham about the fact that Ripper mightn't react well to sedation...

I don't think Burnham said anything about sedation. They didn't have evidence it wouldn't react to sedation, and if you watch the monitors when it is happening, all of Ripper's biosigns drop to low levels just as the computer announces "sedation protocol complete". Yeah, Landry is dumb for opening the containment pen instead of using any other advanced technology (transport its claw off, make a small hole in the field for a medical laser, etc.) but based on the information she had at the time, the sedation seemed to have worked.
 
I like Lorca's standoffish relationship with the crew. I know we're used to Trek "families," but that isn't how the workplace really is a lot of the time. You don't have to like the people you serve with, or agree with the decisions your superiors make. This friction, to me, seems more plausible than what we got with Voyager.

Now, whether people will want to watch that sort of dynamic in the long term ... that's another issue. But I'm liking it for now, and I don't really expect Jason Isaacs is on-board for the long haul, so the issue may take care of itself.
 
I like Lorca's standoffish relationship with the crew. I know we're used to Trek "families," but that isn't how the workplace really is a lot of the time. You don't have to like the people you serve with, or agree with the decisions your superiors make. This friction, to me, seems more plausible than what we got with Voyager.

Now, whether people will want to watch that sort of dynamic in the long term ... that's another issue. But I'm liking it for now, and I don't really expect Jason Isaacs is on-board for the long haul, so the issue may take care of itself.

I was thinking last night that a great non-traditional way to structure a Trek show would be around "grunts" who get called onto away missions all the time but are not part of command structure. They repeatedly get called to report to the transporter room with only a cursory idea what's going on beforehand. It would lead to a more plausible show than the typical Trek experience, were command staff does everything for reasons of casting.
 
I was thinking last night that a great non-traditional way to structure a Trek show would be around "grunts" who get called onto away missions all the time but are not part of command structure. They repeatedly get called to report to the transporter room with only a cursory idea what's going on beforehand. It would lead to a more plausible show than the typical Trek experience, were command staff does everything for reasons of casting.
great idea - a new pov after each away mission. how do we call it? star trek: the last day in the life of a redshirt comes to mind :D
 
I was thinking last night that a great non-traditional way to structure a Trek show would be around "grunts" who get called onto away missions all the time but are not part of command structure. They repeatedly get called to report to the transporter room with only a cursory idea what's going on beforehand. It would lead to a more plausible show than the typical Trek experience, were command staff does everything for reasons of casting.
As far as I can tell, that's kind of what they're going for with Discovery anyway. Burnham, at this point, is basically a glorified redshirt, and despite her talents and intelligence, Lorca probably wouldn't lose any sleep if she got killed on an away mission.
 
As far as I can tell, that's kind of what they're going for with Discovery anyway. Burnham, at this point, is basically a glorified redshirt, and despite her talents and intelligence, Lorca probably wouldn't lose any sleep if she got killed on an away mission.

Maybe. She had an away mission in episode 3, but not episode 4. I see no evidence from the trailer we're getting off the ship in episode 5. This series in general seems to have way too much time spent onboard the ship and not enough planetside adventure.
 
As far as I can tell, that's kind of what they're going for with Discovery anyway. Burnham, at this point, is basically a glorified redshirt, and despite her talents and intelligence, Lorca probably wouldn't lose any sleep if she got killed on an away mission.

i disagree - it's just one person and we all know she will climb the ladder again rather fast.
 
i disagree - it's just one person and we all know she will climb the ladder again rather fast.
Strongly disagree, as this is definitely not that kind of show. The main reason is, Lorca isn't the kind of character who could reasonably offer Burnham a shot at (Genuine) redemption, and this is a deliberate choice by the writers. Saru hints at this in his reaction to Burnham's little experiment in the lab when he says "I was wrong. You'll fit in perfectly here!" This is Saru indirectly referencing the fact that Discovery is being captained by a sociopath whose intentions are far from honorable. So Unless Burnham is planning on leapfrogging the entire chain of command and/or leading yet another mutiny (it IS kind of her thing, but still) "rising through the ranks" just isn't how this is going to work.

Really, Burnham has as much a shot at being captain of the Discovery as James Bond has at replacing M. She's not that kind of character, and this is not that kind of show.
 
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