Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x04 - "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry"

[Sakonna]

Depressing realization: I think even if you filled the roles with Masters Of Trek Prosthetic Acting, even they would not be able to make something out of this combination of heavy makeup + made-up language + awkwardly-written lines. This approach would have defeated Andrew Robinson, Marc Alaimo, Jeff Combs, Salome Jens, etc, etc...

That said, I do think Mary Chieffo is actually getting a performance out as L'Rell, perhaps suggesting that she is the most brilliant performer yet in the franchise.

 

[Jadeb]

I like Mary Chieffo as well. I hope we're seeing a shift from big Klingon speeches to more intimate conversations. That works much better, IMO.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's funny, with Landry being a toaster, that she was edging towards vivisecting Ripper, which was a red letter even leading to the Cylon Civil War, when they started trying to cut the higher functions to the centurions and raiders.

Although... Cylon hybrids with the jump computers for the Cylon Basestars! WTF? This has happened before, and it will happen again.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Tim may mean that the other prisoners are assholes.

Have you not watched Oz or Orange is the New Black?

Every day is a new opportunity for a fellow prisoner to steal your eyelids, if they run out of toilet paper.

OK then. Why would a United Federation of Planets correctional facility in 2256 employ hard manual labor as a means of rehabilitation? What is this? The Klingon/Cardassian/Romulan/Terran Empire?

 

[BillJ]

OK then. Why would a United Federation of Planets correctional facility in 2256 employ hard manual labor as a means of rehabilitation? What is this? The Klingon/Cardassian/Romulan/Terran Empire?

Yeah. It really seems like everything would be automated at that point. TOS had miners, but that was before the writers could imagine technology being able to take care of that kind of dangerous work.

Another point for it being a reboot.

 

[stardream]

I gave it an eight. I keep remembering how underwhelmed I was with the first few episodes of the other series so I will continue to give it a chance, at least for the first season.
I LIKE Lorca but I admit that might have to do with me being a bit of a Jason Issacs' fangirl. I know, not everything he does is good but what can I say. Burnham...reminds me of how unlikeable Sisko and Paris were in their first few episodes. Tilly is early Harry Kim/Doctor Bashir.

I know a lot of people compared this with Equinox but my first impression was a Doctor Who episode, The Beast Below.

 

[Guy Gardener]

OK then. Why would a United Federation of Planets correctional facility in 2256 employ hard manual labor as a means of rehabilitation? What is this? The Klingon/Cardassian/Romulan/Terran Empire?

Just consider how educated these people are that they can be dropped into a new profession, full of unknown technology and adapt immediately... The three convict thugs in episode three must have had at least masters in computer sciences and engineering.

Hard labour?

They are jockeying computer terminals, not swinging pickaxes.

 

[cooleddie74]

It's not a reboot.

No more than DS9 and VOY are reboots of TNG because the Federation maintains hard labor penal facilities for prisoners. Tom Paris wasn't mining dilithium but he wasn't just sitting around playing Parisses squares with his fellow inmates. He was doing hard time and performing the late 24th century version of hard labor.

 

[BillJ]

It's not a reboot.

No more than DS9 and VOY are reboots of TNG because the Federation maintains hard labor penal facilities for prisoners. Tom Paris wasn't mining dilithium but he wasn't just sitting around playing Parisses squares with his fellow inmates. He was doing hard time and performing the late 24th century version of hard labor.

How you interpret it is how you interpret it. I see nothing of the 23rd century of the original in this show, from the characters to the way society is portrayed, to the sets themselves (and no, I'm not talking about slavish recreation).

Everyone's mileage will vary.

 

[Campe]

His original character's description from TrekCore
Sound familiar?

I've been guessing all of this for weeks now. Particularly since Voq appeared on the promo scene with no actor attached to him.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's not a reboot.

No more than DS9 and VOY are reboots of TNG because the Federation maintains hard labor penal facilities for prisoners. Tom Paris wasn't mining dilithium but he wasn't just sitting around playing Parisses squares with his fellow inmates. He was doing hard time and performing the late 24th century version of hard labor.

I have always felt that a "penal colony" was like olden days Australia... They just drop you there, and then you're only in trouble if you try to leave, which has neither been proven or disprove by canon.

But yes, penal facility is a jail with guards.

(I'm watching the pilot of Oz. Ernie Hudson has top billing? Cool.)

 

[Long Syntax]

If anyone had PTSD, it was the shushing Klingon.

Was I the only one bothered by the shushing Klingon? I mean, really? Klingons don't hang around humans, certainly not enough to pick up one of our traits as putting a finger to ones mouth and making a shhhhh sound to be quiet. If this was Worf, yeah, that would make sense, but it wasn't.

 

[BillJ]

Was I the only one bothered by the shushing Klingon? I mean, really? Klingons don't hang around humans, certainly not enough to pick up one of our traits as putting a finger to ones mouth and making a shhhhh sound to be quiet. If this was Worf, yeah, that would make sense, but it wasn't.

Best bit of dialogue the Klingons have had in four episodes.

 

[cooleddie74]

Then again, Arne Darvin was a Klingon and he could be as spastic and exaggerated in DS9 as Jim Carrey. Sure, he was either cosmetically-altered or a descendant of a Klingon who contracted the Augment virus, but he would fit right into a scene where a Klingon shushed a Starfleet officer.

 

[Ometiklan]

And that's utter bullshit.

The event in question was an explosion, not a bunch of Klingons with guns shooting her parents while she watched. Meaning if she had PTSD it would have been triggered by explosion like events, not Klingons.

I agree with the other posters that this is not how PTSD works, and that Burnham was clearly affected by seeing the Klingon Torcherbearer on the Beacon because it triggered memories of losing her parents on Doctori Alpha. The later conversations with Sarek and Georgiou both involved whether Burnham was acting rationally or emotionally due to her past experiences; seems like the writers were going for this exactly.

...Unfortunately I found Saru to be one who likes to ride his high horse of morals and intellect, instead of trying to help his crew out of their situation. Characters like this would fit right in the B&B/TNG era. It's possible that the producers created this character as a form of lip service to the most vocal & critical of 'Trek fans' who feel they own the franchise.

Watching "After Trek" this week, I got the impression from something that Isaacs said that Saru's current animosity and 'high horse-ness' is temporary. At some point it is likely that he and Burnham reconcile and likely realize and acknowledge they haven't treated each other as they should.

Just consider how educated these people are that they can be dropped into a new profession, full of unknown technology and adapt immediately... The three convict thugs in episode three must have had at least masters in computer sciences and engineering.

Hard labour?

They are jockeying computer terminals, not swinging pickaxes.

My impression of the other convicts was that they were regular convicts, not 'military'/Starfleet ones like Burnham. That doesn't rule out the chance that they have advanced degrees (since this is the mostly evolved 23rd century), but lessens it, especially since they don't seem to be your average 'white collar' criminals one might expect from this era.

 

[Guy Gardener]

White collar work is replaced with simple software.

Blue collar work is replaced with simple machines.

Man's only unredundantable job is inbetween, making sure that the machines run properly, and the software doesn't glitch.

 

[anh165]

This episodes plot, at least the parts around the creature would not feel out of place in the TNG era shows.

Yep, because all those 275 (maybe 276) 'true trek fans' across the world who claim to own the Trek franchise abhor erratic imperfect characters, action and lens flare, they want to see scientists working with god-in-a-machine solutions to pluck their crew out of their problems in each episode.

That's true sci-fi writing for the intelligenta right there ....

 

[anh165]

Watching "After Trek" this week, I got the impression from something that Isaacs said that Saru's current animosity and 'high horse-ness' is temporary. At some point it is likely that he and Burnham reconcile and likely realize and acknowledge they haven't treated each other as they should.

I actually don't mind Saru, he is obviously risk adverse and makes an interesting counter to Lorca and Burnham's desire for action. I just can't fail to shake off that feeling he has a bit of that EMH doctor in him.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

I just can't fail to shake off that feeling he has a bit of that EMH doctor in him.

To be fair he's been practically right about everything. He probably has dolls of all his shipmates and spends 10 minutes saying "I told you so" to them before bed.

 

[oberth]

I actually don't mind Saru, he is obviously risk adverse and makes an interesting counter to Lorca and Burnham's desire for action. I just can't fail to shake off that feeling he has a bit of that EMH doctor in him.

it looks a lot like that, but what on earth is he doing in starfleet then?