Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x04 - "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry"

[eschaton]

Yes, they are the worst. I didn't think it was possible to ruin the Klingons even more than TNG/DS9 did, but somehow DIS managed even that. Their scenes are so utterly boring. They should at least speak faster and not in slow motion.

I am 95% certain the Klingons only speak so slow because they want to ensure the subtitles are on the screen long enough for the average reader.

I dunno how you can claim that the TNG/DS9 era butchered the Klingons. They were barely fleshed out as a race until TNG, just being one note bad guys who were remarkable mostly because Colicos and Ansara gave such great performances. TUC fleshed them out to a certain extent, but it was contemporaneous with TNG.

 

[Mr Awe]

And she still did nothing to stop it. It was even her research which gave the others the idea to use it this way.

War obviously justifies every morally abhorrent thing in this series. Because I am sure that when there are no humans to rescue on a colony, they will still continue torturing the tardigrade. After Discovery's success Starfleet is likely already planning to build more ships with spore drives and to capture, enslave and torture even more tardigrades.

It *just* happened! Michael is just learning how it affects the creature. She learned a lot about the creature in this episode but it just happened. We'll obviously see more on this. Plus, it's not really her decision. She can refuse but Lorca would order the work to go on. See Stammets. Obviously there is a confrontation in the works. Give it some time!

 

[Guy Gardener]

You have to wonder if turning off it's higher functions, not that surgery is possible, would be a possible course of action.

 

[Ovation]

It *just* happened! Michael is just learning how it affects the creature. She learned a lot about the creature in this episode but it just happened. We'll obviously see more on this. Plus, it's not really her decision. She can refuse but Lorca would order the work to go on. See Stammets. Obviously there is a confrontation in the works. Give it some time!

It's almost as if, in this series, things are not neatly resolved at the top of the hour, but rather play out over multiple episodes--nah, that can't be.

Reading the pro- and con- views of the new series, I'm struck by several things (and I'm only lukewarm about the series, so far, though I am liking it more as it goes).

One--the reactions don't neatly split on "the canon". I thought that would be the main sticking point. Instead, by and large, it seems stuck on episodic vs arc-driven, with the latter making resolutions to various plot threads, moral dilemmas and so on, a delayed event that some find irksome. Wasn't expecting such resistance to non-episodic storytelling.

Two--there is a (slight, but persistent) dislocation of Kelvinverse Trek as the target of complaint. That is not surprising, as each new iteration seems to soften people's views on the previous one (not remove all complaint, but certainly reducing its intensity).

Three--there is a willingness by many to acknowledge some aspect they like/don't like (whether favourable or not overall towards the show) that seemed lacking in the previous iterations, where, at least initially, it seemed all or nothing for either side of the equation. This is a welcome development, as it allows for more room for discussion, rather than dismissal of the opposite view (not universal, of course, but still substantial).

I'm curious to see if this more nuanced praise/criticism will remain intact as the series moves forward.

 

[Mudd]

And she still did nothing to stop it. It was even her research which gave the others the idea to use it this way.

War obviously justifies every morally abhorrent thing in this series.

Pretty much, yeah.

More to the point: a war story line justifies every stray bit of on-screen cruelty, character self-centeredness and cynicism that the managers of this show feel they need to put on display to convince themselves and their studio bosses that they're wearing the creative "big people pants" on a premium off-network drama.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

This was far and away the best episode of DSC so far. A fascinating problem with a compelling and morally challenging solution. And that ending with Georgiou really got to me. Outstanding job all around.

 

[Sir Stewart Wallace]

Pretty much, yeah.

More to the point: a war story line justifies every stray bit of on-screen cruelty, character self-centeredness and cynicism that the managers of this show feel they need to put on display to convince themselves and their studio bosses that they're wearing the creative "big people pants" on a premium off-network drama.

There was no way Trek was coming back to TV unless it was dark and gritty. That's not to say Discovery isn't good, but this was inevitable. Personally I try and take the good with the bad. This whole "Discovery is flawless, you're just looking for things to criticize" attitude I've seen makes no sense. All of Star Trek can be nitpicked. So what?

 

[eschaton]

This was far and away the best episode of DSC so far. A fascinating problem with a compelling and morally challenging solution. And that ending with Georgiou really got to me. Outstanding job all around.

Ironically, the reviewers I've seen are generally saying it's the worst episode yet. Which just leads me to think reviewers don't really understand Trek.

 

[nutshell]

Solid 7. Like last week's episode a bit better.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Ironically, the reviewers I've seen are generally saying it's the worst episode yet. Which just leads me to think reviewers don't really understand Trek.

It really understood the kinds of problems and ethical quandaries that have been some of Trek's strongest stories. It was on point.

 

[SeamusShameless]

I get the feeling that the House of Mokai is going to give Voq the Arne Darvin treatment. Calling it now, Ash Tyler is Voq.

 

[eschaton]

It really understood the kinds of problems and ethical quandaries that have been some of Trek's strongest stories. It was on point.

The main issue with the episode was just TOO MUCH. Trek should have at most an A/B plot structure. This episode had an A/B/C/D/E structure:

A. Conflict between Stamets and Lorca's extremes
B. Exploration of the space Tartigrade
C. Struggle to save Federation's dilithium reserves
D. Burnham's struggle to open the box from Georgiou
E. Klingon crap.

It's just way too much. IMHO the last two plotlines should have been dropped entirely.

 

[marsh8472]

The new form of transportation has potential. It's out of place in the 23rd century though. I'm going to miss that security lady that was killed, I liked her.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I get the feeling that the House of Mokai is going to give Voq the Arne Darvin treatment. Calling it now, Ash Tyler is Voq.

His original character's description from TrekCore

• Shazad Latif will star as Kol, the Commanding Officer of the Klingons and protégé of T’Kuvma. Latif has also been seen on such shows as Penny Dreadful, Black Mirror, and MI-5.

Sound familiar?

 

[Nerys Myk]

The main issue with the episode was just TOO MUCH. Trek should have at most an A/B plot structure. This episode had an A/B/C/D/E structure:

A. Conflict between Stamets and Lorca's extremes
B. Exploration of the space Tartigrade
C. Struggle to save Federation's dilithium reserves
D. Burnham's struggle to open the box from Georgiou
E. Klingon crap.

It's just way too much. IMHO the last two plotlines should have been dropped entirely.

It's typical of many serialized shows.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I'm not interested in going tit for tat through Trek history. From my perspective, there are three significant differences here:

1. We're not just talking about a foolish decision with potential consequences that could lead to conflict. Burnham had one and only one chance to prevent all-out war. Her mentor died for that plan. But this supposedly stoic ward of Sarek throws all out the window for revenge. She makes a conscious decision to murder, regardless of cost, not an impulsive move that leads to trouble.

2. This is after she mutinies against her beloved captain. So we have not just one terrible impulsive choice, but two in a row. How many terrible impulsive mistakes does she get to make before she shouldn't be trusted on a starship? We're not talking about some green kid -- she's a first officer, and she's unsuitable for command.

3. This isn't a standalone episode from the days when what happened last week is forgotten. This is the narrative throughline for the entire series. It's the very essence of the show, and, to me, it runs against the fundamental message of Trek. She'd have been a villain on TOS, and now we're supposed to root for her?

YMMV, of course.

Picard made a conscious decision to let go of Hugh. A decision which allowed the Borg to continue assimilating thousands of planets and eventually cost thousands of Federation lives when the Borg attacked the Federation for the second time. Starfleet command was pretty blatant in their criticism of Picard regarding this. Janeway made an alliance with Borg, again costing thousands of alien lives for her convenience. Sisko conjured a lie to drag the romulans into the Dominion War an action that caused millions of Romulan deaths. Kirk was willing to enact General order 24 (destroy all life on a planet) against the Eminiar, seems weird that such a noble organisation like the federation would have such an order. I'm assuming these example also go against the 'fundamental' message of trek?

The whole point was that Burnham acted the way she did because of PTSD from the klingon attack that killed her parents. It's made pretty clear that for the seven years that Burnham served on the Shenzhou she was a model officer, so much so that Georgiou was ready to support Burnham getting her own command. She comes face to face with Klingons and she was not prepared to deal with them. Living with the Vulcans was detrimental to Burnham, because all they did was teach her to suppress her emotions and not actually face and deal with them. Burnhams actions are pretty much classic post traumatic stress disorder.

We're supposed to root for her because Burnham feels immense guilt and self-loathing over what she did. We're supposed to root for her because she is starting to work at redeeming herself. Burnham's journey isn't going to be wrapped up in a neat little package and forgotten about in the next episode like previous incarnations of Star Trek.

 

[eschaton]

I get the feeling that the House of Mokai is going to give Voq the Arne Darvin treatment. Calling it now, Ash Tyler is Voq.

That's my theory too. Although IMDB/Memory Alpha list an actor for Voq, he's not been in any promotional material at all, nor covered in the press, which is highly unusual for someone who is purportedly a main character of the show.

Note that rumors are that Ash Tyler and Michael Burnham are going to bang. This will lead to excellent complexity for Voq/Ash, because he'll be screwing (and possibly fall in love with) the woman who killed his messiah (and he also ate her mentor!).

 

[eschaton]

It's typical of many serialized shows.

Yeah, but that's mostly the case where there are a dozen POV characters and standing plot elements. This episode really only had two POV (Burham & the Klingons) and many of the plot arcs were mostly or entirely solved in this episode.

 

[Succubint]

I found Lorca's use of the Corvan II hails really interesting. On the one hand, it's incredibly emotionally manipulative. On the other hand, it was effective in motivating the crew to push themselves to the limits to enact a rescue. I didn't get the impression that he was uneffected by the outpost's plight or Landry's death, it was subdued, but I still saw empathy and frustration there. I also saw a captain willing to do whatever it took to whip the crew into shape to accomplish a difficult mission. That's why I currently find him pretty compelling. He's not one note, he's complicated and sometimes a little too ruthless or pragmatic than might be comfortable for a Starfleet captain. He's focused on achievable results on a deadline of a few hours, which can lead to blind spots like how the Tardigrade is being hurt by the drive. It was clear the crew also needed a morale boost after months of a demoralizing war. This daring raid on those attacking Corvan II supplied that for them and their faith was renewed. So another plus as far as the mission was concerned.

The big downside, of course, is how the navigational creature is being treated. At the moment only Burnham seems concerned with the ethical implications. I presume this will be articulated in the next episode and members will be forced to take a stance.

What's unique to this show is that the 'moral center' if you want to call it that, is not in the Captain's seat. Burnham doesn't have the power to override Lorca's or Saru's commands if they disregard her recommendations. We're used to Picard or Janeway or Kirk being the one to agonize over and determine the best course of action or be persuaded by other crew members. This time, we are placed in a less empowered position, which gives us a different perspective. When Landry came in to join Burnham, on Lorca's orders, I was not happy about it, nor was Burnham. But it wasn't her choice, which is why she could only do so much to redirect the thrust of their study of the creature.

It should also be noted that someone screencapped the scene with Landry being killed and it's pretty clear she watches the monitors and waits until the life sign meters are nearly at zero before she drops the force field and attempts to retrieve a claw. What she did was still dumb and ill-advised, but the scene does show her paying attention to what the monitors said, not just the 'Sedation protocol complete' verbal cue. I think she just was too gungho, too eager to please Lorca and swept up in her impatience with Burnham after the harrowing shipwide hail to listen to reason. And that's why she died. It was basically sending a message that preemptive aggression and wilful ignorance for expediency's sake is not the best option.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yeah, but that's mostly the case where there are a dozen POV characters and standing plot elements. This episode really only had two POV (Burham & the Klingons) and many of the plot arcs were mostly or entirely solved in this episode.

C and D were resolved. The others are on going.