Well the war has been going badly for them hasn't it?. They are frightened of losing it, they have families, we've already seen characters whom have lost family members...etc
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x04 - "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
How about Lorca fatigue then...?
You should watch the After Trek for this episode. They interview a real scientist named Paul Stamets who is apparently behind this idea. He is really, really stoned.
How dare he? I smell burning torches and the clanking of approaching pitchforks!
I enjoyed it as I have from the first episode. I'd give it a soft 8 but I haven't really been blown away by anything yet. So far this feels like maybe two or three episodes of of Trek just stretched out in to 13 episodes.
Eagerly awaiting a holy crap moment.
Eagerly awaiting a holy crap moment.
Life comes full circle! Remember when you were a kid and you were watching something with your parents on tv and something sexual was about to happen on screen and your got embarrassed and your mum started twitching and mentioning how she needed to clean the curtains or something till it passed? That scene with the two Klingons...L'rell and The White Adenoid or whatever his name is...You know the one with all that simmering indiscernible guttural sexual tension? My visiting 82 year old mother sat watching in the front room says to me...'Oh God...Are the Klingon's going to have sex!!' At that point I paused, tuned away, and shook my head grimly...'These curtains need a wash ma....'
Someone was definitely on the Shenzhou and got the telescope for Burnham. Naturally during wartime it makes much more sense to salvage it than a dilithium processing unit.
It’s a science vessel that has been trying to get the new drive up and running far behind the front.
The most traumatizing thing that has happened to them, is the collective cringe when they hear the “Black alert!” blaring.
And this war btw, seems to be about as traumatizing as a rainy day on the golf course. I don’t see any rationing, folks seem well fed and happy. Unless you’re one of the very few people who happen to serve on a Starfleet vessel, or hear about it on the news, you probably wouldn’t even know it’s happening.
There’s talk of 8000 dead in the first few days of the war? (Which probably means there haven’t been very many casualties since. Otherwise why say it that way.) There’s probably more people that die in traffic accidents every day, even in the future.
What "folks" have we actually seen? The crew of the Discovery, an admiral, some prisoners and some miners. We've no idea what going on elsewhere.
In a way, Discovery reverses the strengths and weaknesses of traditional TV Trek. In the past, you could always tell Trek only had a TV budget to work with, but it was all there in the writing, so you forgave any production cheesiness. Discovery, the visual execution is perfect and looks movie-expensive, but the writing is filled with flaws.
Heh, I was just posting about how I miss having more of an ensemble, and then you have to go and mention the likes of Harry Kim and Chakotay to remind me to be thankful that the characters we do have are interesting and well-developed. I guess it is better to focus on: no more Mayweather's...
I was imagining how much better this might work if they were doing the Tzenkethi war, from the DS9 backstory.
I mean, marketing-hook wise, to the uninitiated it's not like there's much difference between "10 years before Kirk" and "between Kirk and Picard, there was..." We know nothing about the Tzenkethi, so they can be totally free to invent their own thing and do as much production design as their modern prestige drama budget will allow.
Ha! Now that is the fun with ST canon that I like. There's always a supporting example somewhere in all these hours of TV...
Another thing this episode does fantastically well is the direction/editing of these action-y climactic sequences -- they're transmitting so much information to you so clearly and efficiently, all these little emotional reactions the characters are having to the events, while also keeping a great build with the tension and excitement.
Heh, I was just posting about how I miss having more of an ensemble, and then you have to go and mention the likes of Harry Kim and Chakotay to remind me to be thankful that the characters we do have are interesting and well-developed. I guess it is better to focus on: no more Mayweather's...
I was imagining how much better this might work if they were doing the Tzenkethi war, from the DS9 backstory.
I mean, marketing-hook wise, to the uninitiated it's not like there's much difference between "10 years before Kirk" and "between Kirk and Picard, there was..." We know nothing about the Tzenkethi, so they can be totally free to invent their own thing and do as much production design as their modern prestige drama budget will allow.
Ha! Now that is the fun with ST canon that I like. There's always a supporting example somewhere in all these hours of TV...
Another thing this episode does fantastically well is the direction/editing of these action-y climactic sequences -- they're transmitting so much information to you so clearly and efficiently, all these little emotional reactions the characters are having to the events, while also keeping a great build with the tension and excitement.
HIS NAME IS CUDDLES!
I hope the Captain takes away Burnham’s naming privileges...
Nej, maybe its because Im uses to subtitles, but I don’t think they’re THAT bad.
Heck, I think they’re more likable and interesting than Starfleet so far.
Their weird Shakespearean dialogue and weird medieval like costumes definetely drag them down though.
At least the way they give Voq shit about being a bastard by consistently calling him “Son of none” still makes me LOL.
I’m probably looking forward to learning more about Voq more than I am to learning about any of the Discovery crew.
That's because Landry is a Cylon!
He is not 'behind this idea.' His connection to this is that he studies real mushrooms, and Discovery's engine uses space mushrooms. Some people think that based on this connection the sporedrive is based on real science. It is based on real science in the same way that the Force is based on real science because it is powered by midichlorians which live in cells and there is real science studying cells.
Solid 8 out of 10.
Didn't like seeing Landry go. I thought the character was interesting and I liked the actor. But yeah, what happened to her was her fault.
Loved that the Tartigrade was sentient, and I hope, intelligent. But I agree with those who think that the spore drive will be sacrificed eventually for the good of the creature. The creature looked to me to be in deteriorating health at the end.
Liked the way Lorca stood up to the Admiral re: Burnham. I couldn't see even Picard doing that. He still looks like a somewhat older John Hamm to me. It's like Don Draper running a starship.
The coolest shot so far in the series has to be when Discovery materializes at Corvan 2 and we get that long shot that takes us right into the bridge. Loved the crew's satisfaction and happiness with saving the people. This was no doubt the payoff for Lorca's ploy of having the crew listen to the cries from the people earlier in the episode.
The Klingon story is getting interesting.
So, the doctor, finally, though we didn't see much of him. Compared with the rest of the lighting in the ship, the lighting in sick bay almost hurt my eyes.
I like the way they're building the relationship between Burnham and Tilly, brick by brick. When friendships are built in this way, they seem more realistic when they do finally bloom. Having Burnham in her current state immediately accept Tilly's friendship would seem out of character for Michael.
Finally, Georgiou's will. The video seemed to fit what we know about her personality, unflaggingly positive and optimistic with not a trace of melancholy. So sad. Almost lost it when Burnham opened the container and I saw the telescope. But, true to her Vulcan heritage, her held on in her final good-bye to her friend. Wonder if we'll ever see her meditate.
I'd be lying if I saod I didn't like where the show is going.
Didn't like seeing Landry go. I thought the character was interesting and I liked the actor. But yeah, what happened to her was her fault.
Loved that the Tartigrade was sentient, and I hope, intelligent. But I agree with those who think that the spore drive will be sacrificed eventually for the good of the creature. The creature looked to me to be in deteriorating health at the end.
Liked the way Lorca stood up to the Admiral re: Burnham. I couldn't see even Picard doing that. He still looks like a somewhat older John Hamm to me. It's like Don Draper running a starship.
The coolest shot so far in the series has to be when Discovery materializes at Corvan 2 and we get that long shot that takes us right into the bridge. Loved the crew's satisfaction and happiness with saving the people. This was no doubt the payoff for Lorca's ploy of having the crew listen to the cries from the people earlier in the episode.
The Klingon story is getting interesting.
Intriguing.
So, the doctor, finally, though we didn't see much of him. Compared with the rest of the lighting in the ship, the lighting in sick bay almost hurt my eyes.
I like the way they're building the relationship between Burnham and Tilly, brick by brick. When friendships are built in this way, they seem more realistic when they do finally bloom. Having Burnham in her current state immediately accept Tilly's friendship would seem out of character for Michael.
Finally, Georgiou's will. The video seemed to fit what we know about her personality, unflaggingly positive and optimistic with not a trace of melancholy. So sad. Almost lost it when Burnham opened the container and I saw the telescope. But, true to her Vulcan heritage, her held on in her final good-bye to her friend. Wonder if we'll ever see her meditate.
I'd be lying if I saod I didn't like where the show is going.
I used to watch TOS sat on her knee when I was a nipper in the 70's! In my Captain Kirk pyjamas! I don't do the same now thankfully!
To deal with the telescope, I'm going to steal someone else's fanwank about Generations, and reverse it.
Generations has that bit where Picard is crawling through the Enterprise wreckage, picks up the priceless ancient artifact given to him by his mentor in "The Chase", and then casually tosses it aside to pick up some other memento. On this board, I read someone's fanwank that what we see in Generations is merely a reproduction, Picard had sent the original object to a museum somewhere.
So I'm going to conclude that the telescope we saw in Georgiou's ready room was merely a reproduction that was abandoned with the ship, and this telescope in the case is the actual antique, taken out of storage on Earth or wherever and sent to Burnham.
Generations has that bit where Picard is crawling through the Enterprise wreckage, picks up the priceless ancient artifact given to him by his mentor in "The Chase", and then casually tosses it aside to pick up some other memento. On this board, I read someone's fanwank that what we see in Generations is merely a reproduction, Picard had sent the original object to a museum somewhere.
So I'm going to conclude that the telescope we saw in Georgiou's ready room was merely a reproduction that was abandoned with the ship, and this telescope in the case is the actual antique, taken out of storage on Earth or wherever and sent to Burnham.
I seem to be in the minority, but I actually love how the Klingons are getting lots of screen time to show their side of the conflict. Yes, the prosthetics are not great in terms of emotive expressions and vocal clarity, but I can suffer through that to get a different, contrasting perspective from the Discovery crew. Turns out that the 'villains' have their own problems and squabbles to deal with. They have identities and values they want to preserve, but sometimes they have to compromise in order to survive. They also suffer setbacks and moral dilemmas.
I'm digging Voq, L'Rell and Kol. I like how Klingons are both being made to look even more alien and 'other' (which I think is why they are still sticking to spoken Klingon and English subtitles) and yet still are humanized by their own desperate situation (in the case of the former two) and ambition in the latter. Their scenes had them dealing with starvation, isolation, pragmatism vs faith, social prejudice, rejection, betrayal, loyalty, romantic attraction etc. They aren't just cardboard cut out villains. Voq is still reviled and seen as a joke. He is deposed and will have to find other ways to further his vision of Klingon unity. I do think that L'Rell is leading us towards an espionage story. Will Voq be deliberately augmented to appear human so he can be an infiltrator? Or is there a different story arc to come for them?
I really enjoyed this episode overall. Burnham continues to intrigue me. Yes she's more closed off than most of the crew, but that's also why I liked Spock. Those glimmers of emotion and irrationality were even more fascinating when we got a peek at them. I see Michael as a stoic individual who has internalized a lot of shame and guilt at what she did at the Battle of the Binary Stars. People say she's acting like an asshole, but I am not seeing it. She has a softer tone with Tilly and even thanked her for taking a risk to help her with the Tardigrade. Clearly her scientific curiosity and more compassionate approach to the creature is leading her down a path which will inevitably lead her to be an advocate for the Tardigrade's wellbeing. She will end up opposing Saru who will be determined not to lose Captain Lorca (like Burnham did Georgiou) at any cost. It's easy to see how this spore drive will eventually not be a viable form of transportation for the Federation due either to the ethical implications or the rareness of the navigational critter. With the ship almost certainly being operated on a need to know basis due to the war, it's not hard to see why info on this DASH drive remained classified or was expunged later.
It seems logical to me that either Saru or Michael or some other senior officer grabbed the telescope and other belongings of the Captain before they abandoned ship on the escape pods. No need to come back later.
Do we know if a dilithium processor itself is that rare or valuable? It sounded like a fairly standard part. Not as rare or valuable as the actual dilithium crystals. I compare this to the Firefly episode Out of Gas where they needed a pretty common part to fly the ship (after it got damaged) and things became desperate because they were stranded and at the mercy of pirates who reneged on their deal etc.
Similarly, perhaps the processor became important tech to the stranded Klingons because they couldn't salvage it elsewhere from the debris and it was the last thing the ship needed to replace. There's nothing to suggest that the Shenzou had any strategically sensitive tech that needed to be kept from the Klingons at all costs. There are other examples of ships not being scuttled and just left derelict. Especially in war zones. The Glenn, on the other hand...
I'm digging Voq, L'Rell and Kol. I like how Klingons are both being made to look even more alien and 'other' (which I think is why they are still sticking to spoken Klingon and English subtitles) and yet still are humanized by their own desperate situation (in the case of the former two) and ambition in the latter. Their scenes had them dealing with starvation, isolation, pragmatism vs faith, social prejudice, rejection, betrayal, loyalty, romantic attraction etc. They aren't just cardboard cut out villains. Voq is still reviled and seen as a joke. He is deposed and will have to find other ways to further his vision of Klingon unity. I do think that L'Rell is leading us towards an espionage story. Will Voq be deliberately augmented to appear human so he can be an infiltrator? Or is there a different story arc to come for them?
I really enjoyed this episode overall. Burnham continues to intrigue me. Yes she's more closed off than most of the crew, but that's also why I liked Spock. Those glimmers of emotion and irrationality were even more fascinating when we got a peek at them. I see Michael as a stoic individual who has internalized a lot of shame and guilt at what she did at the Battle of the Binary Stars. People say she's acting like an asshole, but I am not seeing it. She has a softer tone with Tilly and even thanked her for taking a risk to help her with the Tardigrade. Clearly her scientific curiosity and more compassionate approach to the creature is leading her down a path which will inevitably lead her to be an advocate for the Tardigrade's wellbeing. She will end up opposing Saru who will be determined not to lose Captain Lorca (like Burnham did Georgiou) at any cost. It's easy to see how this spore drive will eventually not be a viable form of transportation for the Federation due either to the ethical implications or the rareness of the navigational critter. With the ship almost certainly being operated on a need to know basis due to the war, it's not hard to see why info on this DASH drive remained classified or was expunged later.
It seems logical to me that either Saru or Michael or some other senior officer grabbed the telescope and other belongings of the Captain before they abandoned ship on the escape pods. No need to come back later.
Do we know if a dilithium processor itself is that rare or valuable? It sounded like a fairly standard part. Not as rare or valuable as the actual dilithium crystals. I compare this to the Firefly episode Out of Gas where they needed a pretty common part to fly the ship (after it got damaged) and things became desperate because they were stranded and at the mercy of pirates who reneged on their deal etc.
Similarly, perhaps the processor became important tech to the stranded Klingons because they couldn't salvage it elsewhere from the debris and it was the last thing the ship needed to replace. There's nothing to suggest that the Shenzou had any strategically sensitive tech that needed to be kept from the Klingons at all costs. There are other examples of ships not being scuttled and just left derelict. Especially in war zones. The Glenn, on the other hand...
I actually found Michael to be mostly sympathetic in this episode. She's clearly torn about using the creature. They save the colony but hurt the creature. She's still visibly upset over Georgiou. And, she really wasn't rude to Tilly. She just wasn't in the mood for talking because of the package. Totally understandable. And, yes, she has been traumatized and it affects her like it does real people. Finally, the message from Georgiou was like pouring salt in the wound on multiple levels. There's a lot going on.
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