Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x04 - "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry"

[Lakenheath 72]

Some tidbits -

There are at least four reasonably intact Federation starship wrecks, based on the "artwork" by Voq. Yet, only the Shenzhou has a functional dilithium processing unit.

The Klingons, because of purity, subsisted on rations from wrecked bird-of-preys and scavenged whatever technology they could from these wrecks. Considering how easy it is for Federation starships to blast these small ships apart, I can not imagine there being many of these small ships left as wreckage. What about the larger starships? (What do we call those?) There are at least one or two reasonably intact models of this class around. Did they scavenge those?

It is a horse beaten dead many times - yet, it must be stated. No warrior culture would sacrifice an advantage, like the cloaking device, so easily. I am not surprised nor shocked about the eating of Yeoh's character by the Klingons.

The battle in the still unspecified binary star system - its end game is murky. I think we are supposed to assume that the Klingons left the flagship for reasons, that the telescope was recovered from the wreck of the Shenzhou, and that Starfleet, again for reasons, did not destroy what was left of the starships I mentioned earlier.

Knowing Corvan II had rainforests, I think the visuals of the bird-of-preys swooping over a forest, firing their weapons at the colony, and retreating would have been far more aesthetically pleasing than a drab gray hilly landscape.

One of the things previous Star Trek got right was deveoping a visual aesthetic for the main alien ships. Based on one glance, someone could tell a Klingon ship from a Romulan ship. It got a little murky in Enterprise. With this new series, I do not feel that they have developed a visual aesthetic for the Klingon ships. It feels like a hodgepodge of ship types with differing origins.

It's funny in the captions for the distress call that the message ends with an "inhuman scream".

The major issue I see with this show is that we won't learn more about the rest of the ship. This is a problem with having a lower deck character. They are limited in what they can know. We can see this in the real world. A lower ranking individual will have a far less clear picture of the bigger scene. Lower deck episodes work as fillers, like what happened with TNG and VOY. I have a feeling we have learned as much as we will about the bridge crew - I could be wrong. I think by season's end we won't know more about them, unless Burnham interacts with them more.

 

[Sakonna]

It's absolutely a decision, but I dispute that it is one of murderous revenge - at the time she makes it she doesn't yet know that Georgiou isn't savable. She turns the phaser to kill because it is the only way she can possibly save her. From a 'spectrum of use of force' perspective, it's an entirely defensible decision to use deadly force against deadly force.

I agree that her actions are absolutely within the spectrum of defensible responses. I think the only thing that hasn't been settled for me is: is this Burnham's truth of the decision, in her own mind? And that's one I could see going either way. You can take an acceptable action for unacceptable motives. I also think the character herself may not have reconciled it yet -- I certainly have had moments like that in my own life, a split-second decision that had large impact, and then it took me awhile to fully understand what had been motivating me in the moment. Just because there were defensible explanations for my actions, I was not sure that those explanations were the honest ones -- precisely because of how fast and instinctual it was. It's hard to work out what's really deciding for you, in a situation unfolding that quickly, and interrogating your responses and decisions after the fact is natural.

Literally all she has to do is pull the trigger on her phaser to prevent a war. But, nah, better to go with murder.

I do think this read, seeing it as a clear murder, is an over-simplification of what was shown on the show. I see room for Burnham to eventually conclude her actions were murderous, but what we've seen so far has decidedly left more shades of gray.

 

[Jadeb]

What I find frustrating is that better writing could have put more shades of gray in it. This wasn't a dilemma, it was just a choice to kill the guy. Call it murder or revenge or whatever. She chooses to kill unnecessarily at the cost of thousands of lives when it would have been less effort not to. Even small tweaks to the scenario could have made her decision more compelling.

I like what the writers have tried to do. I just don't think they've done it very well.

 

[F. King Daniel]

FRANZ JOSEPH UFP LOGO!!!!!!111oneoneone

 

[Big Data]

I love that critter.

 

[Sakonna]

Do the Klingon scenes make anyone else think of the Master in season 1 of Buffy The Vampire Slayer?

The vampire-looking makeup, plus the scenes all being awkwardly separated from the main narrative...

 

[F. King Daniel]

Enjoyed the episode. Nice spinning saucer.

Klingon plot thickens. And our first look at Klingon necks!

 

[Longinus]

Do the Klingon scenes make anyone else think of the Master in season 1 of Buffy The Vampire Slayer?

The vampire-looking makeup, plus the scenes all being awkwardly separated from the main narrative...

My SO noted that. This is what I don't like about these Klingons, they look like very generic scary aliens/monsters/orcs/demons.

 

[Sarek@Vulcan]

My thoughts:
Klingons are mix of ISIL and White supremacies.
Ripper (giant tardigrade) is like Moya's navigator from Farscape.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Do the Klingon scenes make anyone else think of the Master in season 1 of Buffy The Vampire Slayer?

The vampire-looking makeup, plus the scenes all being awkwardly separated from the main narrative...

Sans Mark Metcalf's charisma.

#Neidermeyerhugz

 

[guyute03]

You know, did that contraption really need to have nipple clamps? I mean, I don't know how to process that.
Ew.

 

[Mel Tenorio]

Landry will come back, she's a fracking Cylon.

 

[F. King Daniel]

You know, did that contraption really need to have nipple clamps? I mean, I don't know how to process that.
Ew.

TV-MA, dude.

 

[Kemaiku]

Not everyone keeps their brains, or nipples for that matter, in the same place?

 

[Noname Given]

Do the Klingon scenes make anyone else think of the Master in season 1 of Buffy The Vampire Slayer?

The vampire-looking makeup, plus the scenes all being awkwardly separated from the main narrative...

I was watching it with a group of friends and someone mentioned something interesting RE: The Klingon look in ST:

- What if (over the last century) the Klingon Augment virus has continued to mutate and alter Klingon physiology. That's why these Klingon (and the council) respond to the whole "Remain Klingon!" with such passion and why they are so quick to Judge and ostracize ant 'outsiders' who they see as "Not Klingon".

[The producers did say they are all very aware of "Enterprise" and treat it as a part of overall canon; so maybe that explains the look/fragmentation and motivation of the Klingons seen in ST: D?]

 

[BillJ]

A '4'. Or, possibly a '6' without the mushmouth Klingons.

 

[cultcross]

Do the Klingon scenes make anyone else think of the Master in season 1 of Buffy The Vampire Slayer?

The vampire-looking makeup, plus the scenes all being awkwardly separated from the main narrative...

Good comparison. It's rarely a good idea to separate the 'villain' narrative, in my opinion. Not only do you create a weird distinction between the two storylines which should be intertwined, you lesson the sense of jeopardy and interrupt the hero's story constantly to update the villain's. It works much better, to continue your example, in Buffy's second season where the villain has an intimate connection to the hero, and interact regularly with each other.

 

[eschaton]

[The producers did say they are all very aware of "Enterprise" and treat it as a part of overall canon; so maybe that explains the look/fragmentation and motivation of the Klingons seen in ST: D?]

The exact quote from Ted Sullivan.

Enterprise did a lot of scrambling and covering and patching up things, which I think worked for that show. It is hard to be in the middle between that show and TOS. [Discovery staff writer and “Keeper of the canon”] Kirsten Beyer will probably tell you the most arguments she and I have had are me saying “Wait, we can’t do that because of something on Enterprise?” But, we respect that. Enterprise is canon and it’s tough and it was a constantly shifting show.

But, what I am really proud of is that this show stands on its own. Maybe the sets look a little different. Maybe the props look a little different. Technology has changed, but that is what Star Trek is. Star Trek is about evolving and adapting and showing what is happening in the world and adapting new technology.

The Klingon Augment virus thing happened in the Discovery world. End of story.

 

[Gonzo]

Oh dear as soon as the intro as finished we get more Klingons, so the Captain was eaten and they are starving it seems, looks like it wasn't just the heart either, om nom nom.

Bit of a plot hole really, why didn't the Federation go to salvage/sabotage the ships and destroy T'Kuvmas ship completely, its the first thing I would have done, the less said about Klingon romance the better.

Oh Landry "Your science my tactics" line at the start sound like famous almost last words to me, it seems Ripper thought so as well, so it came aboard during the experiments then, thought as much.

No surprise the Ripper is the cause of the Glenn's abilities, what else could give them the ability to travel safely through the shroom but a native of that environment.

Back to Klingons and now we know that the Klingons ultimately got the cloaking technology from T'Kuvmas ship, where did he get it from though, it must have been the Romulans yet the two cloaking technologies work very differently from each other in the 24th Century.

I would love to be on the outer ring of the saucer when it starts spinning, Stamets has another little meltdown, does he not realise he is in the middle of a war and if that planet falls they lose 40% of the Dilithium that Starfleets needs to fight.

I love that Lorca plays the transmission from the planet being attacked, its about time the crew got a reality check, unfortunately it made Landry do something very stupid indeed, still no great loss eh, she should have been wearing a red uniform though really.

Got a good look at the Shenzou from the underneath with the bridge visible and it doesn't look very big at all, no more than about 200m or so in length, which is what I thought and posted in the DSC 1x03 - Starships and Technology thread. @Crazy Eddie

Love how Burnham uses Saru as a test of the Rippers intentions, showing that it is only acting in self defense, its about time that he made himself useful.

Mutiny on board T'Kuvmas ship, it was always about the cloaking device for Kol, this means civil war for the Klingons if it continues, the question is did S'Rell just save him from dying or truly betray him, only time will tell.

Well they got the tech working but it seems to exact a toll on the Ripper though, that will come up in future episodes I am sure.

Now we know she did it to save him, they are stuck for the moment though, unless Starfleet turns up, saves them and makes a deal.

Great episode and from the looks of the teaser for next week, Saru may have to make some hard decisions to save the Captain.

9/10

 

[Michael]

Very good episode. More or less on par with last week, I think. Gave it another 8/10.

It's a shame Rekha Sharma is written out of the show already, but her character was kind of insufferable and it really felt like she deserved what she got. But still, would have loved to get to know her better. I'm curious if they will touch on the backstory with Lorca at some point. Maybe in the second novel that's coming out?

There's one logic flaw that kind of bugged me: Why did they say in this episode that the sarcophagus ship is the only one with a cloaking device, when there was a pretty prominent scene with another cloaked ship in episode two? The one that rammed the Europa. Did they just forget about that one?

Now THAT is a bad-ass ship! I want a model of it that spins too.

Yes! Too bad Eaglemoss doesn't do movable parts on their models.

3. I like where they seem to be going with the creature. Very Trekkian to go from "the creature is a virtual xenomorph" to better understanding it and realizing what makes it tick. But now,we've set up a very interesting question about the ethics of using this creature in this way...makes you wonder if that is the reason they don't end up using this "drive" later in canon...because of the ethics involved.

Yeah, I think ultimately that will be the reason why they abandon the technology: because the tardigrade is hurt in the process. Next week's preview makes it look like that particular conflict might come to a high point with Burnham, Saru and Stamets.

10. The frigging production values are unbelievable. It's like a movie every week. Unreal.

I agree. Some of the effects were jaw-dropping. I also love the color work on the show. When they almost jump into the sun the colors were beautiful.

I would say, that if you're not enjoying the series at this point, this should have broken the thin ice for you. There's more of the same on the way... so I'm not sure why anyone's would hang on at this point if you continue to be disgruntled.

Yeah, I tend to agree. If you don't like it now I have a hard time believing it will change to such an extent that you suddenly change your mind.

The best part of the ep for me was Lorca piping the distress call throughout the ship. That was stone cold!

I don't know about “best part”, but it was a really chilling moment. Was kind of cruel of Lorca to force everyone to hear that.

Of course, but Dukat was meant to be a villain, but due to the way Mark Alaimo played him (as absolutely sure he was actually the hero) people began identifying with him even though that was not the intent of the writers at all, who wanted him to be...quite literally...Hitler.

I'm still not sure if they are not setting up Lorca as the villain of the show. Kind of surprised people are liking him so much. Sure, Isaacs is awesome. But the character is pretty despicable to me.

I'd rank Duet, The Visitor, Far Beyond The Stars, and In The Pale Moonlight as 10s

All great episodes. But I argue most of those wouldn't have worked had they been the fourth episode of the show.

-- Why do we have no sense of the relationship between Captain and First Officer yet? It's weird to me that the relationship of Saru and Lorca is such a blank. I have no sense of how they relate to each other -- Trek has always made such a big deal about captain's selection of first officer, and I have no clue why Lorca would pick Saru, they seem like such a terrible match.

Saru touched on this a little bit in the scene with Burnham in Lorca's Menagerie. He says Michael fits right in with Lorca and the people on the Discovery, implying that he too isn't comfortable with the way Lorca handles things. Interesting angle. I hope to see more of that.

Guys, I don't know if anyone else realized this but I don't think the Klingons are cannibals. They ate the Captain because they were starving.

Yeah, good observation. People on Earth have eaten other people in situations where they were starving. Why wouldn't the Klingons?

- CO/XO relationship: This series is being told from a non-captain/non-senior officer perspective. We aren't supposed to know everything about what is going on

Yes, they do deliver on that promise of the show. Hopefully we'll see more of that and not Captain Burnham by the end of season one.

The moment between Voq and L'Rell in the Shenzhou engine room has some of the best acting we've seen thus far from the Klingons. We see a quiet moment between two people with all the rhetoric stripped away, and the actors, particularly Mary Chieffo, do so much acting with their eyes; it's fun to see something resembling subtlety from characters who by their nature do so much posturing.

Completely agree. That was a very nice moment. Am I the only one who sees these two almost as children? They somehow seem very young, inexperienced and kind of naive to me.

(Interesting also, that the Shenzhou has a vertical warp core and not a horizontal one like the Discovery and the Enterprise.)

Some intel on four of the bridge crew. Someone on NeoGAF either made this or copied it from elsewhere.

Very nice! Too bad we don't have a clearer image of Airiam yet. Would love to study the makeup in more detail.

You know, did that contraption really need to have nipple clamps? I mean, I don't know how to process that.
Ew.

My wife said the same thing. I didn't even notice that that's the way it looked.