Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x04 - "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry"

[cultcross]

This one started wobbly for me, I was getting ready to slap down my first <5 rating if the first ten minutes had continued through the episode. Lots of 'war is hell', 'ends justify the means' cliché, lots of bloody Landry chewing the scenery while mysteriously not reflecting light that's directly on her, another weirdly specific ticking clock, and Saru being an ass for no reason.

But then Landry died horribly (called it!) and the episode got a lot better. Turns out, the episode had everything to say about the first ten minutes that I did (apart from the oddly precise jeopardy clock). Landry's charge in, phasers firing, ignore the science and focus on the war, stuff turned out to be the wrong way to go and we got a Star Trek plot, finally. Communicate and understand the unknown to achieve your goal. Very Devil in the Dark, mixed with The Voyage Home with a pinch of Galaxy's Child, I loved it. Yes the point was to have a fight in the end, but the war framed the story, it didn't overpower it.

Other bits and pieces - they ate Georgiou? Nasty. The Klingon subtitled scenes were better, still not exactly thrilling to listen to them cough and splutter their lines, but I could at least say I was engaged with the characters this time. These actors seemed better at breaking through their prosthetics.
The spinning saucer effect was very cool looking, it may be quite pointless a la Voyagers nacelles, but I did like it. The scene where they jump on top of the village and then back out was very Exodus (nuBSG) and the fact it seemed to hurt the tardigrade is presumably the first Fatal Flaw(tm) in the drive.
Nice to see acknowledgment of gravity being down on the Shenzhou, although it reminded me that I'm a little disappointed they went with sound in space on this show. I know everyone does (nearly) but I'd love it if someone took the Firefly route again.

Overall 8/10.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

This episode gets a solid 8 from me. Don’t really get the haters other than the fact that every trek series since the original has had its fair share of haters. It not being your brand of Star Trek doesn’t mean it’s not Star Trek. Either watch it or don’t, no sense in complaining

Haters in a nutshell

1.) where are all the social issues and why is orville doing them sooner
2.) What about the utopia?
3.) it's not TNG

Can we ditch all the "haters" stuff, please? This forum would get really boring if the posts were nothing but glowing praise all the time.

Mr. Awe made a good post about respecting the perspectives of the people who enjoyed the episode/show above, and it would be nice if the same could be done with the opinions of those on the other side of the fence as well.

 

[eschaton]

I had to expand the quotes to see what you wrote. You have some good points. I wish they'd just switch to speaking English and we can assume that our TV, devices, etc were update with a universal translator!

I don't think we even need a universal translator. Just translate the scenes where only Klingons are present. If/when Klingons and humans are in the same room together, you can keep the Klingons subtitled. But there's no reason to not have them speak English when you're looking into a Klingon-only scene, because you don't need to distinguish between the words that the Starfleet characters would understand versus what they would not.

 

[Gonzo]

So the Discovery not only has a built-in fidget spinner saucer ("You've never heard of the Millennial Falcon? It's the ship that made the Chipotle Run in less then twelve Pinterests"), but it also spins around on its axis and drops bombs to take out multiple fighters like the Death Blossom from The Last Starfighter, is navigated by Aang's flying bison from Avatar: The Last Airbender, and is powered by quantum 'shrooms? Swell. And people thought the USS Prometheus splitting into three parts on Voyager was "too fanboyish." Two is fine, but three parts? Fuck that noise.

Cmdr. Landry AKA Tory the Cylon died like she lived. Stupidly and impatiently. Rekha Sharna deserved a better role. Oddly she's listed as being in all thirteen episodes of the first season on IMDb, so that's either a mistake, they list every episode where she's part of the credited cast, or the showrunners were trying to conceal the spoiler of her Darwin Award winning death after only two episodes. Seriously, she couldn't just shine a flashlight into the cell to make sure the water bear was unconscious instead of dropping the forcefield right away and getting Revanented?

It was nice of the mining colonists to all take perfectly timed turns dramatically crying and screaming into the subspace radio before dying so Captain Loco could make a manipulative point to his crew about where their duty lies.

So, Starfleet, whose reputation for "impeccable technical hygiene" (as per that terribly written line from the first pilot) was so precise and predictable that T'Kumbaya decided to set a trap by it, left behind a dilithium processor aboard the Shenzhou even though they've begun forcing prisoners to perform hard labor under deadly conditions to extract dilithium for the war effort? And they also left behind a derelict Klingon vessel full of intelligence about the 24 Klingon Houses and a prototype cloaking device and living Klingon crew who could be interrogated or traded for Starfleet POWs? In what was clearly defined as their own territory? And they left behind a whole ship instead of scuttling it or towing it for scrap? But they did lead a special expedition back to retrieve the captain's telescope so a traitorous mutineer could have a nice moment to reflect when she's feeling down? Huh?

And the Klingons are no better, pledging to go to war in T'Kuvermodel's name but leaving behind their sacred Lightbright flagship with the now vitally important (six months later) cloaking device, and leaving his people behind to starve to death. Doesn't seem very honorable, but then the Klingons never do. While this isn't the first time we've heard of the Klingons eating their enemies (Kor bragged about feasting on an adversary's heart), I thought it did a bit of a disservice to Captain Georgiou's character to have them describe in graphic detail peeling the skin from her skull and eating it. Seriously, WTF? Just makes that bullshit about how the transporter couldn't beam her up if she didn't have any lifesigns all the more ridiculous now that you see what happens to their dead if they're left behind.

In the long list of evil shit this Starfleet will do, we can now add mutilating and torturing clearly sapient and intelligent animals for weapons and propulsion research. Goodie. They really are no different than the Equinox crew, except the Equinox crew were in a far more desperate and isolated situation than even Starfleet is.

I know Tilly rubs some people the wrong way, but she's one of the few positives I can take away from the show so far and one of the rare likeable characters, despite annoying the people around her sometimes. I find her charming in her naivete and positive outlook. Likewise with Stamets, who's the opposite of Tilly behavior wise, but is ethical and steadfast in trying to make sure his life's work is not misused for foul deeds. Isaacs is excellent as Lorca, I just don't like the character very much. I'm still indifferent on Burnham, though her pursuit of understanding of the super-tardigrade instead of just trying to weaponize it did redeem her somewhat.

Back to more long stretches of mushmouthed Klingon dialogue slowly spat out of static face masks while I miss half of what's happening onscreen as I read the subtitles. Joy. Wait, was that just some subtle Klingon sex talk? "Uncouple"? Bomchickawowow.

I give this episode a "C+".

Lookin forward to seeing it later this evening, I have seen the teaser for next week and I must admit I would prefer to see more character interaction before such a kidnap event occurs, on saying that could it be an intentional setup.

I am happy to hear that the spinning saucer also serves as a weapon as well.

 

[ria 75]

This show seems more interested in its tech than it is in characters. BORING.

Why don't you watch This Is Us? I do. I like both genres.
I suppose the overpowering tech and science is the downside to having a lavish, movie-like production. If all they could afford was dialogue, we'd get more social and interpersonal stuff. As in evey Trek TV show that came before. I welcome the change. It appeals to our scientific curiosity and makes us identify with Burnham.
I think Discovery is boldly going where no Star Trek show has gone before. Is that the Star Trek spirit, or just its motto?

 

[Cox of Seagulls]

This show seems more interested in its tech than it is in characters. BORING.

I agree. We're talking about The Next Genetation, right?

 

[Psion]

Love the battle simulation; if you think about it, Starfleet should be doing these sorts of things probably on a regular basis.

They do ... remember the 'drills' Bailey was running in "Balance of Terror"?

[Turbolift]
MCCOY: Your men are tired.
KIRK: Captain's quarters. Aren't you the one who always says a little suffering is good for the soul?
MCCOY: I never say that.
BAILEY [OC]: This is the Bridge. Prepare for simulated attack.
MCCOY: I'm especially worried about Bailey. Navigator's position's rough enough for a seasoned man.
KIRK: I think he'll cut it.
MCCOY: Oh? How so sure? Because you spotted something you liked in him, something familiar, like yourself say about, oh, eleven years ago?
BAILEY [OC]: On the double, deck five! Give me a green light.
KIRK: Why, Doctor, you've been reading your textbooks again?
MCCOY: I don't need textbooks to know you could've promoted him too fast. Listen to that voice.
BAILEY [OC]: Condition alert. Battle stations.

[Kirk's quarters]
BAILEY [OC]: Engineering, deck five, report. Phaser crews, come on, let's get with it. Phaser station two, where's your green light?
KIRK: What's next? They're not machines, Jim?
MCCOY: Well, they're not. After what they've been through they really should
KIRK: Doctor McCoy, I've heard you say that man is ultimately superior to any mechanical device.
MCCOY: No, I never say that, either.
KIRK: I could've sworn I heard you say that. Kirk here.
SPOCK [OC]: Exercise rating, Captain. Ninety four percent.
KIRK: Let's try for one hundred, Mister Spock.
SPOCK [OC]: Agreed.
MCCOY: What are you going to do with that six percent when they give it to you, Jim?

We've just never seen them before.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Can we ditch all the "haters" stuff, please? This forum would get really boring if the posts were nothing but glowing praise all the time.

Mr. Awe made a good post about respecting the perspectives of the people who enjoyed the episode/show above, and it would be nice if the same could be done with the opinions of those on the other side of the fence as well.

It's all in good fun,

Half of keeping light hearted is laughing at ourselves.

Trek is a community of nitpickers.

Shining a little lighthearted light on that here or there never hurt anyone.

 

[Beckler]

Hopefully this isn't a trend. Last episode wasn't great and this one was worse - really stupid. Alien life form navigating ship with spore drive is so random and ridiculous, but mainly boring. It also simply has to be a direct take from Capt. Ransom (voyager). This is no better than a "wet sand" TNG new life form episode. Enough with the stupid stuff, it's boring. But wait it gets worse. Apparently Ransom is the main captain on the show? Wow.

 

[Uhura's Song]

I get it. I just think it's contrived and stupid. She kills him when she doesn't have to, even though the whole point of going there was to capture him and prevent a war. Her mentor gives her life for that plan and Burnham throws it all away. And she's supposed to be influenced by Vulcans?

Basically, she's willing to let millions die because she wants revenge. That's absolutely un-Trek like, at least for the non-villainous characters. Long way from Kirk trying to save a Klingon who was trying to kill him after causing the death of Kirk's son.

Fair point. However, you seem to be conveniently forgetting a lot of other instances of risky behavior by Trek crew. The one of Scotty starting a fight with the Klingons in Tribble (and risking a war) because the ship was insulted is a prime example. Worf going on a killing rampage after Alexander's mother is killed is another.

Again, I'm not trying to chill criticism of the show. There are certainly holes. However, what irks me is criticism along the lines of "this is not Trek" or "no Trek officer would ever do that" that ignores multiple blatant examples of folk doing exactly that.

When that line persists and ignores or fails to address the examples cited, I tend to jump to conclusions about poster's motivation. Sometimes erronously. I will try not to.

So I ask again, what about Scotty & in particular, Worf. Worf killed for revenge and risked a war within the empire? So is TNG not Trek & stupid? Why or why not?

 

[Jono]

Issue B. Not pointless. Clever. Neat. One fell swoop. Probably safest for the Discovery in spite of appearances.

Maybe if it didn't absolutely melt two of the Klingon ships in a second I could buy having to do something like that and not see it as showboating.

 

[AndyUK]

I thought it was pretty good again. 8/10.

The characters are all starting to become interesting in their own right which will keep it worth watching. The idea of a misunderstood monster isn't exactly original but the Ripper stuff was still interesting and the Klingon stuff was easier to watch than in the pilot too.

The Corvan II stuff was a bit throwaway in the end though. I know that it was about the journey more than anything and getting in and out quickly but it would've been nice to see a bit more of the situation and the stakes before they arrived maybe, which is probably one of the disadvantages of being serialised/standalone at the same time.

 

[ria 75]

Maybe if it didn't absolutely melt two of the Klingon ships in a second I could buy having to do something like that and not see it as showboating.

Sure, Lorca couldn't wait to show off. But I choose to credit him with a keen strategic sense.

 

[Jadeb]

So I ask again, what about Scotty & in particular, Worf. Worf killed for revenge and risked a war within the empire? So is TNG not Trek & stupid? Why or why not?

I'm not interested in going tit for tat through Trek history. From my perspective, there are three significant differences here:

1. We're not just talking about a foolish decision with potential consequences that could lead to conflict. Burnham had one and only one chance to prevent all-out war. Her mentor died for that plan. But this supposedly stoic ward of Sarek throws all out the window for revenge. She makes a conscious decision to murder, regardless of cost, not an impulsive move that leads to trouble.

2. This is after she mutinies against her beloved captain. So we have not just one terrible impulsive choice, but two in a row. How many terrible impulsive mistakes does she get to make before she shouldn't be trusted on a starship? We're not talking about some green kid -- she's a first officer, and she's unsuitable for command.

3. This isn't a standalone episode from the days when what happened last week is forgotten. This is the narrative throughline for the entire series. It's the very essence of the show, and, to me, it runs against the fundamental message of Trek. She'd have been a villain on TOS, and now we're supposed to root for her?

YMMV, of course.

 

[cultcross]

. She makes a conscious decision to murder, regardless of cost, not an impulsive move that leads to trouble

Huh? When did that happen?

 

[Amaris]

Fair point. However, you seem to be conveniently forgetting a lot of other instances of risky behavior by Trek crew. The one of Scotty starting a fight with the Klingons in Tribble (and risking a war) because the ship was insulted is a prime example. Worf going on a killing rampage after Alexander's mother is killed is another.

Again, I'm not trying to chill criticism of the show. There are certainly holes. However, what irks me is criticism along the lines of "this is not Trek" or "no Trek officer would ever do that" that ignores multiple blatant examples of folk doing exactly that.

When that line persists and ignores or fails to address the examples cited, I tend to jump to conclusions about poster's motivation. Sometimes erronously. I will try not to.

So I ask again, what about Scotty & in particular, Worf. Worf killed for revenge and risked a war within the empire? So is TNG not Trek & stupid? Why or why not?

That is a particular peeve of mine as well. "This never happened in Star Trek!" or "No officer would have done this" absolutely denies, or ignores, 50 years of Star Trek where it has done exactly that. The exhaustion comes when one points it out and is followed up by "this is different," when it's not different at all aside from being from another Trek series. It's frustrating, and it's understandable when one has to rethink the original poster's motivations.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

The Klingons: gibberish-spouting Halloween masks, long boring time-killing scenes full of nothing.

Poor actors.

Agreed, the pointless physical changes and decision to show all their scenes inKlingonese is hamstringing the actors and the viewers ability to engage with them as characters,none of these "Klingons have an iota of the charisma we've seen from some past Klingons, these are gibbering monkeys

 

[XCV330]

There's no reason to assume that Ripper is sentient just because it suffers and has a lot of coordinates in its head. A 10 year old GPS can find its way around, but I still don't think it suffers if the battery alert comes on.

 

[Psion]

There's no reason to assume that Ripper is sentient just because it suffers and has a lot of coordinates in its head. A 10 year old GPS can find its way around, but I still don't think it suffers if the battery alert comes on.

True, but it should make one pause and wonder if it is being harmed when it thrashes around in what appears to be pain. Maybe it's something akin to sexual arousal for Ripper, and activation of the spore drive makes the tardigrade climax. "Dude, you've got to get an assignment on one of those human ships ... they have tech that is SO much better than a fleshlight!" If that's the case, let's spread the tech through the galaxy!

But I want to check, first, to make sure it's not being harmed.

EDIT TO ADD:
Did I just channel my inner Guy Gardner?

 

[cultcross]

True, but it should make one pause and wonder if it is being harmed when it thrashes around in what appears to be pain

Certainly, and the fact that was included so explicitly suggests that's going to be a plot point. Burnham seemed very concerned about the impact of making the tardigrade a beast of burden - I wouldn't be surprised if there's Trek style moralising to come in that very issue, plus the practical side of 'we've only got one of these'.