In fact, when they built up to the line in the episode, I smiled. It was a nice little nod.Yep - that plus the announcement of Amanda's appearance in a later ep pretty much clinches it.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x03 - "Context is for Kings"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Gonzo
Guest
Who on earth came up with that.
People who couldn't get over the fact that her name is Michael.Who on earth came up with that.
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Gonzo
Guest
Neither of them are responsible for starting the war, the Klingons are, it was a setup from the start and not some random occurrence, T'Kuvma intentionally lured the Shenzou there knowing that the rest of Starfleet wouldn't be far behind, his plan would have failed otherwise.
The war had already started before Starfleet even knew the comms array had been destroyed, Starfleet found out the hard way as usual, Burnham knew before they or even her Captain did which is why she called Sarek.
The rest is history.
Except that's basically HOW Georgiou handled it - I never got the impression Captain Georgiou believed the info Burnham was telling her RE: The Vulcan Hello was false/made up/inaccurate - Georgiou (because of her history regarding war) didn't believe that would work here.
Hell, even Sarek mentioned that what worked for Vulcan may not work for Humans - be very careful.
Georgiou was trying her damnedest to get out of the situation diplomatically. The situation was bad, and she knew it may have been a set up - and in that case a Vulcan hello wouldn't have worked here.
Basically, once the decision was made (ultimately by Starfleet) NOT to retreat from the area - the die was cast.
I was never the case here that either Captain Georgiou was right or Cmdr. Burnham was right because they were BOTH wrong. Neither diplomacy nor 'a Vulcan hello' would have worked because T'Kuvma orchestrated the situation and his plan was to unite the Klinngon Empire by waging war against the Human led United Federation of Planets. No matter how the Federation responded/reacted at the Binary Stars - TKuvma would manipulate whatever happened into a reason for war other Klingons would find valid.
I say that because once T'Kuvma accepted the request for a parley and responded by killing the Admiral (by destroying the U.S.S. Europa , Captain Georgiou abandoned her diplomatic side and let her military side take over. Had Captain Georgiou survived and she and Burnham managed to capture T'Kuvma - Burnham's court martial might have turned out a little differently (She would still have been convicted and discharged and served time; but Georgiou's testimony might have caused an overall more lenient outcome (assuming a living T'Kuvma could successfully be used as leverage to force a diplomatic solution.)
I don't tthink Georgiou was portrayed as one-dimensional or stupid. She was in a bad situation she had little control over. I think she realized if the Klingons were there to start a war; a war would start - but she was not going to be the one who gave them a reason for it by firing first.
Once that had happened (IE the Klingons attacked and decimated the Federation Fleet ships there - Georgiou went to her soldier side - and found Burnhan's logic regarding disableing and attempting to capture T'Kuvma sound - and that why the both did what they did (in an attempt to gain leverage to shorten/end the war) UNTIL Georgiou was killed and it a heat of the moment rage reaction Burnham killed T'Kuvma - now giving the Klingon Empire a martyr to fight for - and pretty much ensuring the war wasn't going to be ending anytime soon.
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Gonzo
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It does make me wonder who came up with the name and why, its a bit unusual though I have seen it used that way before.
See the Waltons tv show from the 80's.
But the Vulcan Hello might have worked here. If they had cut down T'Koma before the other houses showed up and decided to work together.
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Gonzo
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Yeah if they had just engaged T'Kuvmas ship before the others had gotten there they would not have allied with him, they would have seen T'Kuvma attacking a vessel considerably smaller than his and lost interest.
Then the idiot snowflake Admiral arrived along with the fleet, they did exactly what T'Kuvma wanted them to do and he knew they wouldn't fire first, only Burnham was willing to act to short circuit T'kuvmas plan.
Not that it matter now of course.
It really doesn't matter whether it would have worked. You just can't do that. It is actually pretty surreal that Burnham assumed that she could convince Georgiou to fire first or after disabling her anyone would follow her order to do so. That's just not what Starfleet does, it should be obvious to everyone, and it seemed to be to everyone except to her.
But Starfleet really isn't firing first. The Klingons damaged a communications relay to lure them there, then tried to kill Burnham when she investigated.
The Klingons fired the first shots of the incident.
Georgiou couldn't see it, because she was blocked in by bad writing.
They had signalled their peaceful intentions at that point, you cannot renege on that. Georgiou was right.
Who? The Shenzhou? Well, I tend to think that was under the idea the Klingons weren't there to start shit. Once it became apparent they were, by not responding in any way to the hails, then all bets are off.
Michael Burnham was right that a first strike was necessary. She was wrong to mutiny, a first strike was Georgiou's call to make. Georgiou just completely ignored everything they knew about Klingons up to that point.
So because they didn't answer, it is OK to shoot at them? Please, never get a gun.
If someone invades my home, tears shit up and then tries to kill me, I would be well within my rights to defend myself. Thanks.
I think the Klingons massacring half of the fleet might have something to do with that.
True, but if someone kicks over your lawn ornament and then stares silently at you, it's probably a bit much to start shooting.
Yeah, this.
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