Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x02 - "Battle at the Binary Stars"

[137th Gebirg]

So, I'm confused, was that ship that split the Europa in two always under cloak until it started its final run? And was it completely destroyed by Europa's antimatter dump? I was under the impression that only T'Kumva's main vessel had a cloak, but I'm curious if he had other hidden ships in his fleet as well and, if so, where did he find/build them without being noticed by the Empire? Ship building requires resources, and the Empire was always considered resource-strapped, requiring its aggressive policy of expansion (from "Day of the Dove"). Kind of like the odd nature of Shinzon's super-ship being built without a single Romulan knowing of its existence. Especially idiotic considering the all-knowing nature of the Tal Shiar. Did the Klingons not notice the existence of these rather large vessels flying around in their space? They couldn't have been under cloak the entire time.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

I saw no thematic power. It just made me roll my eyes. Much like Klingons have done for the last thirty years. Thematic power would've been them talking about honor, then actually acting in an honorable manner instead of accepting a cease fire under false pretense then attacking another ship under cloak.

Absolutely. T'Mushmouth undercut his honour babble by attacking first the Europa and then the rest of the Federation fleet while they were under the protection of parlay. That shot him from zealous ideologue to criminal dirtbag in one horribly slurred sentence.

EDIT: Actually, he was already well within dirtbag territory when he responded to Georgiou's message of "Howdy, neighbour. Looks like you strayed over the property line for your little picnic. Care to talk about it?" by opening fire.

 

[Mr Awe]

Or some sort of drone/probe.

Part of the problem that they set up with this was that the object would confuse/trick the optical scanners. That's why they needed to get human eyes on it. They first tried the telescope but then had to send a human out to it to see it in person.

The way I see it, the space suit is really just a super tiny shuttle craft. So, I have no problem with how it was portrayed.

 

[Sci]

I saw no thematic power. It just made me roll my eyes. Much like Klingons have done for the last thirty years. Thematic power would've been them talking about honor, then actually acting in an honorable manner instead of accepting a cease fire under false pretense then attacking another ship under cloak.

If you didn't see any thematic resonance in T'Kuvma's ideology of Klingon nationalism, his sincere beliefs about Kahless and his teachings, his construction of how a good person ought to find meaning int he face of death, and in his duplicity -- justified in his mind by his belief that the Federation itself was being duplicitous by its declaration that it "comes in peace" -- then I suspect you were refusing to engage in the narrative on its own terms.

 

[Mr Awe]

I saw no thematic power. It just made me roll my eyes. Much like Klingons have done for the last thirty years. Thematic power would've been them talking about honor, then actually acting in an honorable manner instead of accepting a cease fire under false pretense then attacking another ship under cloak.

Yes, that stuff didn't really work. They need to cut down on that and not use subtitles. I'm a fan of foreign films so I'm not actually against subtitles in general. But the combination of facial appliances and subtitles meant that you couldn't see or hear the emotions. At least in a foreign film, you see the actors face and they don't sound garbled!

 

[BillJ]

Part of the problem that they set up with this was that the object would confuse/trick the optical scanners. That's why they needed to get human eyes on it. They first tried the telescope but then had to send a human out to it to see it in person.

It doesn't have a camera? Once Burnham got inside the scattering field, she was able to make out what it was without any issue.

 

[137th Gebirg]

If you didn't see any thematic resonance in T'Kuvma's ideology of Klingon nationalism, his sincere beliefs about Kahless and his teachings, his construction of how a good person ought to find meaning int he face of death, and in his duplicity -- justified in his mind by his belief that the Federation itself was being duplicitous by its declaration that it "comes in peace" -- then I suspect you were refusing to engage in the narrative on its own terms.

Klingon honor has always been open to the interpretation of the individual Klingon, it would seem. This has been a maxim since the beginning and extended well into the 24th century.

 

[BillJ]

...his sincere beliefs about Kahless and his teachings...

Um, once he committed his sneak attack under truce, it was clear he was Donald Trump, telling people what they wanted to hear in order to get their support.

 

[Mr Awe]

It doesn't have a camera? Once Burnham got inside the scattering field, she was able to make out what it was without any issue.

Well, it probably has an "optical scanner." I couldn't tell you how that's different than a camera but the implication was that the object was able to confuse the optical scanners. The idea was that you had to see it with your eyes and that's why she could see it ok in person. They had tried an old fashioned telescope first for this reason.

Whether that makes sense is up to you!

 

[BillJ]

Well, it probably has an "optical scanner." I couldn't tell you how that's different than a camera but the implication was that the object was able to confuse the optical scanners. The idea was that you had to see it with your eyes and that's why she could see it ok in person. They had tried an old fashioned telescope first for this reason.

Whether that makes sense to you is up to you!

The optical scanners in the suit had no issue picking it up once inside the scattering field.

 

[Mr Awe]

The optical scanners in the suit had no issue picking it up once inside the scattering field.

I suppose distance can be an issue too. So a combination of reducing the distance and using human eyes. I don't remember the scenes well enough but I think it was only truly visible to her eyes. I think the suit only knew the location of the object, and that could've been programmed in the from the ship for all we know.

I agree that it's not completely clear what is going on and it might not make complete sense. But the gist that they were aiming for is that human eyes can see it while optical scanners can't.

Given that, I'm not sure why cloaking devices typically make the ship invisible to human eyes too but not here. At least that's how they're usually portrayed. Maybe a really old one? Don't know.

 

[Sci]

Um, once he committed his sneak attack under truce, it was clear he was Donald Trump, telling people what they wanted to hear in order to get their support.

No, the numerous flashbacks and his relationship with Voq make it clear that T'Kuvma held a sincere religious belief. His willingness to violate his promise to cease fire is an indication that he is a complex, three-dimensional character who is not 100% consistent, because, y'know, real people are like that, not just two-dimensional living cartoon characters like Donald Trump.

 

[Longinus]

I find the complaints about not using AI controlled probe silly. AI not being a sufficient substitute to human(oid) skill and intelligence (barring certain specific exceptions such as Data) is one of those unrealistic setting elements like FTL and human-looking aliens you just have to accept in order to have Star Trek in the first place.

 

[BillJ]

Also, Admiral Douchebag's dressing down of Burnham over disturbing Klingon property made no sense. They had barely seen the Klingons in a hundred years, Burnham didn't recognize that it belonged to the Klingons until she saw the symbol on the Torchbearer's armor.

It is tedious to see them continuing the stupid Admiral trope.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

Also, Admiral Douchebag's dressing down of Burnham over disturbing Klingon property made no sense. They had barely seen the Klingons in a hundred years, Burnham didn't recognize that it belonged to the Klingons until she saw the symbol on the Torchbearer's armor.

It is tedious to see them continuing the stupid Admiral trope.

Yeah, I wasn't too thrilled with the Admiral Hardguy character. Seemed more like the hyper boss that likes to dish out orders and phrases that mean nothing ("When we're fighting, we're not talking!")

 

[BillJ]

Yeah, I wasn't too thrilled with the Admiral Hardguy character. Seemed more like the hyper boss that likes to dish out orders and phrases that mean nothing ("When we're fighting, we're not talking!")

He was bizarre, as was his characterization. They seemed to be trying to go out of their way to show us Starfleet isn't the military, then give us a military hardass running it all.

 

[Sci]

He was bizarre, as was his characterization. They seemed to be trying to go out of their way to show us Starfleet isn't the military, then give us a military hardass running it all.

He's a military hardass dedicated to finding diplomatic solutions to conflicts, because Starfleet is a military organization but it isn't militant. I don't think that's particularly bizarre or confusing.

 

[BillJ]

He's a military hardass dedicated to finding diplomatic solutions to conflicts...

That brought a fleet, yet no diplomatic people, to the area.

If you're trying to sell Starfleet as not being militant, then you probably shouldn't have abrasive GI JOE running the show.

 

[BillJ]

Just some of the behind-the-scenes decisions they made are bizarre. Starting with a massive violation of the Prime Directive (right after talking about it) by bringing the Shenzhou down into the atmosphere to rescue Georgiou and Burnham.

At least the Klingon stuff, while I find it doesn't work for me, probably wasn't the worst idea on paper.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

He was bizarre, as was his characterization. They seemed to be trying to go out of their way to show us Starfleet isn't the military, then give us a military hardass running it all.

I couldn't stand Admiral Blast Hardcheese or his diplomacy by catchphrase. That's probably why I was more interested with the physics defying collision than who was aboard.