If you read Fifty Year Mission, there is a strong sense of camaraderie, perhaps stronger than on TNG, but it was among the writers.
Watching DS9 all the way through (for the first time ever)
- Thread starter Evil Robert
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I did read it, which was why I was mentioning it. I think it showed some camaraderie between the staff and actors, though not as much as within groups (like you mention, the writing staff) because they were often separated by their jobs. The appreciation for the actors also comes through more strongly in other media, like the special features and the documentary stuff (interviews, etc.).
Sorry, I wasn't speaking directly to you, but to the thread in general. Certainly, their was a lot of respect between the actors (except perhaps not for Farrell), but that they found the work physically and emotionally challenging. What tended to divide them was their acting styles. JG Hertzler tells a story about the filming Far Beyond the Stars in which Auberjonois and Brooks got into a shouting match about what kind of anger a particular scene called for.
I wonder if that shouting match was a technique to have genuine anger appear in the scene(s)?
I totally relate to this. It doesn't feel that way with any other Trek series for me. That's not to say I didn't love the other series as well. I think the episodic nature of the other series makes it an easier pill to swallow when you get to the end. You can always visit any other episode as a rerun and it will be satisfying on its own. DS9 was built on arcs, characters, relationships and an itch to be serial, and I think that's where the sense of loss comes in. You can't just go back and watch an episode and enjoy it on its own. You can, but it's not nearly as satisfying as starting over completely and experiencing the build up all over again. But it's never the same as that first viewing experience. I'm always remembering the first time I watched the series and the emotions I felt. I'm jealous any time I find out someone is watching the series for the first time. I don't get that sense of jealousy when people watch other Trek series. It's always exciting to me when people watch any Trek, but this series was incredibly touching. And there is such a painful desire to know where these characters went from the finale. I'm curious what happens to characters in other series, but it's just tons stronger with DS9. I know people will disagree with all of that, but the good thing is I KNOW there are others who relate!
I can see Brooks doing that, he seems like a very intense person. And I can see Auberjonois arguing vehemently as he seems to really care about the craft of acting too.
One way to look at that, is the actors were passionante about doing the scene in the way they each felt was best.
Its funny because in my humble opinion DS9 is the only one of the ST series that actually improves with distance and time from its original airing. TNG has that perfectly distilled utopian Rodenberry vision and I think even more than TOS is what he most wanted Trek to be but can sometimes seem, sadly, naive today.
VOY and ENT can be seen as compromised by Berman, Braga era where large cultural commentary was sacrificed to formula and ratings reviews often.
But DS9, probably because of Moore, has this weird vibe to it that for our time only becomes more and more relevant. When I watch it and realize that it ended two years before 9/11 and yet is entirely about the societal conflicts that we grapple with in the post 9/11 world... it really is an incredible accomplishment.
Moore took so much of that into BSG but by that point was in direct conversation with these issues in real time. I think the most incredible part about DS9 is what it is saying religious extremism, political blowback, melting pot cultural sensitivity, contextual rule bending, race relations, all of the stuff that reads so differently from its original airdate til now, but it was trying to anticipate and warn. Trying to grapple before the A's of current events followed the Q's of the series.
I agree it isn't always the most seamless of ST series in terms of repeat watching navigability. But in terms of enduring rewards and emotional impact it is a height of artfulness and empathy that I think ST might never reach again.
VOY and ENT can be seen as compromised by Berman, Braga era where large cultural commentary was sacrificed to formula and ratings reviews often.
But DS9, probably because of Moore, has this weird vibe to it that for our time only becomes more and more relevant. When I watch it and realize that it ended two years before 9/11 and yet is entirely about the societal conflicts that we grapple with in the post 9/11 world... it really is an incredible accomplishment.
Moore took so much of that into BSG but by that point was in direct conversation with these issues in real time. I think the most incredible part about DS9 is what it is saying religious extremism, political blowback, melting pot cultural sensitivity, contextual rule bending, race relations, all of the stuff that reads so differently from its original airdate til now, but it was trying to anticipate and warn. Trying to grapple before the A's of current events followed the Q's of the series.
I agree it isn't always the most seamless of ST series in terms of repeat watching navigability. But in terms of enduring rewards and emotional impact it is a height of artfulness and empathy that I think ST might never reach again.
ENT gets that anxious twinge at the end for me because S4 was so brilliant, the series found its legs, history and lore was finally being tied into the story and you have that sadness of what could'v been (for a hypothetical season 5).
I've been watching DS9 all the way thru this year as part of my Every Series Every Movie Marathon but haven't finished it yet. Took a loooooong break after Far Beyond the Stars. Now I'm getting back into it. It's such a fucking good show. I can't believe it took me so long to get to it.
Binging it for the first time now. I'm halfway through season 5. Enjoying it with some ups and downs. Agree that the supporting characters really make the show (Quark, Garak, Ducot, Eddington, Nog, Rom). Of the main characters, Sisko, O'Brien, Odo, Worf are my favorites. I'm finally coming around on Kira. Dax and Bashir are the weakest, imo.
Looking forward to seeing what happens next!
Looking forward to seeing what happens next!
Hi y'all. Long time no postHope you'll allow an old timer like me a chance to ramble on for a bit
I just recently finished a massive watch of DS9 from start to finish for the first time. While I caught a number of season six and seven episodes… maybe 16/17 years ago… yikes… (and I have seen the odd episode here or there), I never really have had the opportunity to watch it as one complete set before. So thanks to Netflix (and having finished a binge of ENT) I set out on this beast.
I gotta admit going into watching this show, DS9 was certainly coloured by the memories of those Niner wars these foriis had back in the day (2002-4!), and even after all these years, it did feel like watching the enemy in certain parts! Lol
I’m also way too lazy to do episode by episode reviews and final thoughts, so this is what you get
Over all, I did enjoy watching it, though my goodness, those first few seasons where painful. However I only ever stopped watching and skipped two episodes total. One being one of the umpteen dozen time O’Brien was trapped behind enemy lines (Miles was seriously the butt-monkey of the early seasons! He seemed to be constantly knocked out cold, got stuck on the wrong side of a conflict, and all the annoying crap seem to fall onto him, being married to a shill). The other one, was one of the Klingon Honour episodes with Worf... doing something Klingon... just because. I will confess, regardless of series, Klingon episodes are my least favourite. And ones where it seems to be nothing but Worf talking about honour are the most painful by far.
Hey, I made it through all the Ferengi episodes, that must count for something!
Personally to me though, the greatest crime an episode can be, is that of being boring (which is probably half the reason I cannot stand Klingon Honour eps). Bad episodes can often be entertaining (even in an awful way), or at least can be watchable. This is why I don’t hate the Ferengi episodes or ‘Come Along Home’ (though I acknowledge the WTF stupidity of the later). In fact I found the most painful early episode to be ‘If Wishes Where Horses’. My lord that episode just dragged on.
I am not sure if I am going to describe the following the right way, so forgive me if my though process fails me lol - While I enjoyed the show, and I thought it was a good show, but I felt it struggled to cast off the chains (at least during the first 5 seasons) of that post-1987 Gene Roddenberry vision/idealism which I felt delivered a universe full of perfect people living in a perfect society. I mean DS9 did the best at bucking this convention compared to TNG or VOY (both of which tended to wrap up issues of moral ambiguity in 44 mins), but I think it also suffered from this direction as well.
Many times I felt like the show was screaming to be released from burden and be free to explore the grey. This Utopian Pacifism I think did hinder it greatly at various points (at least until the Dominion War started - but then again,how much of that war was a result of them trying to stay true to their ideals as opposed to nipping an enemy in the bud before they got too powerful by going on the offensive early?).
Whereas Babylon 5 or Battlestar Galactica could create their own universe from scratch, where the humans where shown to be fallible and far from perfect, DS9 had to use a template where it wasn’t necessarily a perfect fit for the story the writers wanted to tell and thus many times the characters ‘sense of duty to some golden ideals’ won over in the end of the episode (mainly from Sisko). This trope I felt was just as annoying as any of Voyager's multiple technobabble deux ex machina endings. At times I feel like the show was wanting to go darker, grittier and more morally ambiguous but it couldn’t get to the level it wanted to either.
Random other thoughts:
By far the best character for me was Gul Dukat. My word man, he wasn’t just the best developed villain in Star Trek history, he is up there in one of the best developed character period! With a complex and compelling storyline that rarely reset itself! I could hate, empathize, feel sorry, feel disgust and even casually like the character, often in the same episode. He was layed and multi facilitated and quiet magnetic. I guess props need to go to Marc Alaimo for delivery such a performance, because very few others, even permanent cast members, in any of the shows, I dare say came close.
Jadzia over Ezri – I remember when I watched years ago I like Ezri, but that was basically only having a handful of season 5 and 6 episode of Jadzia to judge by. While Ezri was certainly delightfully cute and perky, she didn’t have that cool sophistication and presence that Jadzia brought to the cast and having now watched the show fully through, Ezri’s presence in Season 7 is much for jarring then it was first time around. What is it with Terry Farrell with leaving shows a season before it ends? Hahaha.
The kid that played Molly was awful. I know most child actors are pretty dire at the best of times, but Hana Hatae was particularly painful.
I really failed to buy into most of the romantic pairings on the show. Almost all of the various couples combinations the show gave us really didn’t have much chemistry between them. On the other hand the show did unrequited mooning over somebody pretty well. On the other hand, I absolutely loved the episode 'Looking for par'Mach in All the Wrong Places', so i guess there was the occasion the writers did strike gold with the hooking up various characters.
I kinda wonder what the budget was during the seasons. So many caves. Many many many caves. It was like Bajor was riddled with so many caves, basements, cellars, cubby holes et cetera I’m kinda surprised it collapsed onto itself for all the holes in the earth! I felt some episodes suffered from this - the Bajoran coup episodes in early season 2 I felt lacked a certain punch cause all the action scenes took place in cheap looking caves.
All in all, I did enjoy it, though I wished on occasion they'd change up the establishment shot of DS9 with the Defiant in the foreground and that same random starship in the back!
Ergh... I probably have many other thoughts. Mostly positive, though darned if I can remember any at the moment lol. Needle me and I might recall
I finished watching for the first time last week.
DS9 is the 2nd Trek series I watched, the other being TNG. I think DS9 has to stand apart from the other series because it is a totally different show. The other Trek series were about being in a mobile ship that encountered every manner of other species and then moved on to the next thing. The long arc stories set this apart and I find it difficult to really compare and contrast. Even comparing Picard and Sisko seems like a fool's errand since they had totally different categories of challenges to overcome.
The characters in DS9 had the most "human" reactions to trying situations. While I love the Roddenberry Utopia of TNG, I find characters that are not afraid to dip into the shadows to be more compelling.
DS9 is the 2nd Trek series I watched, the other being TNG. I think DS9 has to stand apart from the other series because it is a totally different show. The other Trek series were about being in a mobile ship that encountered every manner of other species and then moved on to the next thing. The long arc stories set this apart and I find it difficult to really compare and contrast. Even comparing Picard and Sisko seems like a fool's errand since they had totally different categories of challenges to overcome.
The characters in DS9 had the most "human" reactions to trying situations. While I love the Roddenberry Utopia of TNG, I find characters that are not afraid to dip into the shadows to be more compelling.
For me it were the DS9 novels that made me watch the whole show from the beginning. And I loved it. DS9 didn't have prime time slots on German TV, so I bought the DVDs.
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