Did Starfleet have a facility on Vulcan?

[Tallguy]

The love of science, the exploratory nature, the conservative(somewhat) nature of society, the emphasis on intellectual pursuits, the remaining bits and traces of mysticism, etc...

You don't find any of that on Earth?

Yes but they were re-shaped in the Vulcan mode.

T'Pol stated the Vulcans had been on earth for ninety years-that is a long time. And Vulcan ideology would in that time I think have filtered into humanity's collective conscious and unconscious.

90 years from, what ENT? Cochrane? Now?

That still leaves centuries of exploratory and scientific curiosity. Good bad or otherwise that includes Galileo, Einstein, Von Braun, Goddard, um, pretty much everyone in the Enterprise opening credits. AND the Soviets.

Re-shaped how? I didn't watch much of ENT, but I saw enough to see a humanity that was straining at the "leash", eager to get "out there" to the shock and dismay of, among others, the Vulcans.

And before that little bit of retconing we saw people painted as aching to boldly go, setting up shop on any piece of dirt they could find, finding new ways to get there, new things to do when they did. Kirk's argument to Sarek (by way of Amanda) was that Starfleet was an opportunity for scientific advancement not afforded by staying at home like the Vulcans.

I fail to see "the Vulcan mode" anywhere in TOS, TNG, or even ENT. Not in the present day and certainly not in the heyday of NASA when Star Trek was born.

 

[The Wormhole]

But even in TOS it was a very Roddenberrian notion.

That was thought up by Gene Coon.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Pre-ENT I prefer the notion that the Vulcans were there in an STL ship and they made contact because the monkeys had something that they didn't. Or go with the various histories pre-First Contact. But that ship has well sailed.

In Harlan Ellison's version of "The City on the Edge of Forever" Kirk & Spock get into an argument back in 1930 after being accosted by "barbarians." Spock brags that Vulcan had left their wars and bigotry behind when they went into space, while humans took all of their conflicts with them. An angry Kirk retorts that that was why Vulcan reached the stars hundreds of years after Earth.

(Keep in mind that the script for COTEOF was written early in the first season, before many facts & history of the ST Universe had been laid down.)

No, I don't believe Vulcan had Starfleet facilities. Being the TOS exclusionist that I am, there had to have been a reason that the Vulcan ambassador and his wife had to be ferried from Vulcan to Babel.

Interesting point, but I have a feeling that the Enterprise was ferrying all the various ambassadors so that they could hit the ground running, and unofficially debate the Coridan question en route to Babel.

 

[Voth commando1]

Didn't T'Pol say something to the effect that Vulcans weren't natural explorers, and they generally lacked curiosity?

Maybe I'd have to look at it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Maybe Vulcan Space Central is a Starfleet facility?

 

[The Wormhole]

Didn't T'Pol say something to the effect that Vulcans weren't natural explorers, and they generally lacked curiosity?

T'Pol did say that, but it was later revealed to be total horseshit. From The Forge:

AREV: At one time, the High Command was only responsible for the exploration of space. But that's changed.
ARCHER: I've been told Vulcans have never been explorers.
AREV: I think you've been told many things about us that aren't true.

 

[Shawnster]

Are there any real world organizations where a member state has an "ambassador" to itself? I guess the UN (or NATO) analogy is more apt than the USA or USSR or Great Britain. Only with a para military / exploratory force. On the other hand we are discussing member "states" with literally planetary populations who are at best days travel from each other. (Please sit down, Mr. Abrams.)

Not present day but under Articles of Confederation, the precursor to the Constitution, didn't US states exchange ambassadors with each other?

 

[Tallguy]

Not present day but under Articles of Confederation, the precursor to the Constitution, didn't US states exchange ambassadors with each other?

I did wonder if there were such a precedent.

 

[Timewalker]

Yeah, if you've purged all emotions, I'd imagine it'd be tough for you to interact with Vulcans who were only controlling/suppressing them. Especially when you factor in Vulcan telepathy.

They don't all go in for isolation. It was stated in Voyager that Tuvok achieved Kolinahr, yet he went back on active duty with Starfleet afterward and mentored (in various ways) some of the younger Voyager crew (Harry, Kes, B'Elanna, and Seven).

I think Tuvok's situation can be summed up as "once a teacher, always a teacher, and Kolinahr won't get in the way of that if the call to teach is strong enough."

 

[The Wormhole]

It was stated in Voyager that Tuvok achieved Kolinahr, yet he went back on active duty with Starfleet afterward and mentored

Nope. Tuvok studied Kolinahr but gave up on it because of his ponn farr. From Flashback:

JANEWAY: What did you do during those fifty years?
TUVOK: I returned to Vulcan, where I spent several years in seclusion, immersing myself in the Kolinahr, a rigorous discipline intended to purge all emotions. I wanted to attain a state of pure and total logic.
JANEWAY: What happened?
TUVOK: Unfortunately, six years into my studies, I began the Pon farr. I took a mate.
JANEWAY: T'Pel.
TUVOK: Yes. We decided to raise a family together, so I chose to postpone my studies.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Are there any real world organizations where a member state has an "ambassador" to itself? I guess the UN (or NATO) analogy is more apt than the USA or USSR or Great Britain. Only with a para military / exploratory force. On the other hand we are discussing member "states" with literally planetary populations who are at best days travel from each other. (Please sit down, Mr. Abrams.)

The exchange of diplomats between the Laender of the Second German Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empire was prevalent until the dissolution of those empires in the early 20th century. Indeed, Bavaria, one of the larger Laender, had diplomatic relationships with other nation-states. As these entities lost territory, becoming more compact, and a transportation and communications grew, the advantage of having such ambassadors and diplomats became minimal, and the executives of these territories assumed those powers from themselves. I believe there is some vestige of this practice in the Russian Federation, where the constituent republics have plenipotentiary bodies representing their interests in Moscow.

 

[Timewalker]

Nope. Tuvok studied Kolinahr but gave up on it because of his ponn farr. From Flashback:

Note the word "postpone." That doesn't mean he didn't go back to finish it later (unless he explicitly stated that he didn't?).

 

[Nebusj]

Not present day but under Articles of Confederation, the precursor to the Constitution, didn't US states exchange ambassadors with each other?

No, 'ambassadors' were the stuff of pompous, corrupt monarchies doing secret deals with each other. The whole United States, a virtuous liberal republic, didn't even send ambassadors anywhere until 1893; it sent ministers or envoys instead. Even the President of Pennsylvania wouldn't be so arrogant as to have an 'ambassador'.

(Yes, this is a technicality that in no way addresses the content of your question. Internet, you know?)

 

[Prax]

I haven't read through this thread, but it seems to me that Starfleet is basically a human organization. They have starbases everywhere, which are mostly space stations, but sometimes on planets, and mostly run by humans. It's as if humans have agreed to be the defenders of Federation space, and they allow other species to join their organization.

 

[Tenacity]

T'Pol did say that, but it was later revealed to be total horseshit.

So which was correct, T'Pol or Arev?

Given how long Vulcan had interstellar travel (the Romulans left thousands of years ago) the Vulcan didn't seem to have explored much of the galaxy. Certainly less than the Humans did between the mid 22nd century and the TOS era.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ The last great Vulcan war (which culminated in the Romulan diaspora) probably destroyed much of Vulcan's technology and infrastructure. Soval said it took them a thousand years to recover.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

It was stated in Voyager that Tuvok achieved Kolinahr

That bit of Tuvok's backstory has always made me roll my eyes. It's so unoriginal. They couldn't think of anything else to do with Tuvok's history than to crib a bit from Spock's past?

 

[Timewalker]

That bit of Tuvok's backstory has always made me roll my eyes. It's so unoriginal. They couldn't think of anything else to do with Tuvok's history than to crib a bit from Spock's past?

Well, Tuvok ended up married, with children. Spock didn't do that (the children part, at least).

Besides, it suits Tuvok better than Spock anyway, considering the actor's cardboard delivery of his lines most of the time.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I haven't read through this thread, but it seems to me that Starfleet is basically a human organization. They have starbases everywhere, which are mostly space stations, but sometimes on planets, and mostly run by humans. It's as if humans have agreed to be the defenders of Federation space, and they allow other species to join their organization.

Nah, we just never got to the the Starfleet facilities staffed mostly by non-humans.

 

[CAPTRousseau]

I see it more like some kind of "space UN."

Looking at the United Federation of Planets Seal, and comparing to the UN Seal, one would definitely make that assumption