Since Vulcan is a member of the Federation, they haven't got a choice.
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Did Starfleet have a facility on Vulcan?
- Thread starter JonnyQuest037
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Since Vulcan is a member of the Federation, they haven't got a choice.
This is non-sense, as we have no idea how the Federation actually works. If we take into consideration the Enterprise Vulcan arc, they may have a good reason for not wanting a military presence on their world a century after ending a military dictatorship.
Any given US state would not be able to block the military from building a base in that state, would they? Same story here.
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
(God help me, I actually used that sentence in a non-ironic manner.
)
Based on Enterprise I do not see the Andorians, Vulcans or the Tellarites being vassel states to anyone, unless the Romulan war scared them into it? I don't even think the writers know how the Federation works, it just conveniently does, a bit like Starfleets non military 'military' lol
In the US, states aren't simply vassals of the federal government. They retain a fair amount of powers. Indeed, the Constitution speciically enumerates which powers are given to the federal government, and all OTHER powers are left to the states. And yet, these states still are a part of that government, and form a greater whole.
The Federation is probably much the same as this.
The Federation is probably much the same as this.
I wasn't saying that Kirk was actually at fault there, just that it wouldn't take much to spin it that way.
But heck, if you want to look at it broadly, if Kirk hadn't fathered David in the first place, Genesis never would have happened.
Sending an a ship plummeting into the atmosphere with an active warp core could have further destabilized the planet.
We have no idea. The fact of the matter is that we have zero known presence of Starfleet on Vulcan in any of the instances we have visited the planet.
If an aircraft carrier from the Pacific Fleet showed up in New York harbor when it wasn't supposed to, many people would take notice. There is no Starfleet response when one of their major assets shows up at Vulcan when it is supposed to be at Altair.
There is no escort for the Bird-of-Prey, an enemy vessel deep in Federation territory when it leaves Vulcan.
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home said:
Which means there is probably little to no Starfleet presence in the Vulcan system.
I see it more like some kind of "space UN."
Or with the exception of Starfleet maybe for the most part the Federation doesn't work. We really only see Starfleet, with the Federation basically in the far distant background.
We've seen warp cores explode on a few occasions, and the explosions are big but not gigantic.
Crashing a starship into the ground and the warp core releasing might be a regional devastator, but not a planetary one.
I think it's worth remembering that this entire incident has to be hugely embarrassing for Starfleet and for the Federation government. Admiral Morrow just flat-out denied Kirk's request to retrieve Spock's body because it was for "Vulcan mysticism". He appears to have made the decision without consulting any Vulcans on the subject. Kirk then succeeded in rescuing Spock, the son of a highly prominent member of Vulcan society, when Morrow would have left him to die. Even if Starfleet had the legal right to go in and snatch the Enterprise crew - probably after an extradition hearing of some sort - politically it would have been a disaster. It would have been easier to keep things quiet and allow them to be on parole until the facts of the situation were more clear.
Probably the first thing the Federation president heard of all this was when Sarek, T'Pau, or someone of similar standing called him up and subjected him to an hour-long lecture on the subject of katras and the historical facts underlying Vulcan 'mysticism', complete with footnotes and ancillary readings. I doubt it's a coincidence that when we next see Starfleet Command Morrow has been replaced with Cartwright.
Probably the first thing the Federation president heard of all this was when Sarek, T'Pau, or someone of similar standing called him up and subjected him to an hour-long lecture on the subject of katras and the historical facts underlying Vulcan 'mysticism', complete with footnotes and ancillary readings. I doubt it's a coincidence that when we next see Starfleet Command Morrow has been replaced with Cartwright.
Why would Admiral Morrow have needed to consult with Vulcans about sending Kirk and the Enterprise to Genesis? Bear in mind, it's a classified and controversial planet, and there were standing orders in place banning anything that wasn't a science ship from visiting ("Genesis is Planet Forbidden.") Besides, based on the facts available to Morrow at the time, even if he shared Sarek's belief that Spock could be saved, the Grissom was already at Genesis, with David and Saavik on the ground. Theoretically, they could have retrieved Spock, taken him back to Vulcan and him and McCoy could have done their thing. The fact that Grissom was attacked and destroyed by Klingons who weren't supposed to be there is not Morrow's fault.
And furthermore, it is Vulcan mysticism and indeed later in the movie when Sarek makes his request to T'Lar, who seems to be the Vulcan equivalent of a Dalai Lama or Pope or whatever, she tells him the request is illogical and hasn't even been attempted in modern times. So if the leader of Vulcan's religion thinks the request is bogus, a Starfleet admiral can be forgiven for being dismissive as well.
The reasonable thing for Morrow to do when one of his most decorated officers came to him talking about Vulcan souls, at the request of the Vulcan ambassador, would be to say something like "that sounds weird but let check into it." He's sitting across the table from a guy who had his mind swapped with his crazy ex. A Vulcan telepath storing his mind in someone else's body is one of the less crazy things he reads about in mission reports every week.
T'Lar, for her part, goes ahead with the procedure rather than just saying its impossible. There probably haven't been a lot of opportunities to replace a katra in a healthy body, but we know that transferring katras around is certainly something that happens even if it is normally to a katric ark.
(Also, Grissom being destroyed is totally Morrow's fault, because he should have had some actual security around the place instead of letting two rogue starships reach the planet.)
Considering how staunchly atheistic the majority of Starfleet officers seem to be, Morrow's reaction seems perfectly in line with say how admirals reacted to the stuff on DS9 about the Prophets and Sisko's connection to them, and that actually had some empirical evidence backing it up.
Well, from her perspective there wasn't anything to lose. Everyone was gathered, all that was required of here was to officiate a ceremony, either something happens or it doesn't.
Considering the political hotbed Genesis was, he was probably under directives from the Federation Council not to place weapons near Genesis.
Unlikely.
All the evidence we've seen on the show(s) suggests that the Federation is, in and of itself, a state. It has a military (Starfleet) which acts in the defense of all Federation worlds and territory, it is empowered to conduct trade and diplomatic negotiations on its own behalf, it has a Constitution which clearly delineates all rights and responsibilities of its member worlds (including severe penalties for members who violate Federation law), it has its own monetary unit (the Federation credit), and it has clearly defined borders and territory which is vigorously defended by the aforementioned Starfleet.
In short: The Federation has 'teeth'. The UN does not. The Federation is an interstellar government with clearly defined rights and responsibilities; conversely, the UN is not - in any way, shape or form - a government.
Edit: Paging @Sci! I summon thee!
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Why should it? The Bird of Prey spent months on Vulcan. It was manned by Federation citizens and Starfleet officers. They could easily had their transponder broadcasting the appropriate signal.
If T'Lar is as formidable as T'Pau there is no way Starfleet has a presence on Vulcan (maybe one of its out of the way colonies). Plus Sarek's influence would veto that. Vulcan seems to be run as a semi feudal clantocracy.
