Spoilers Game of Thrones - Season 7

[Booji]

So what, exactly, is standing between the NIght King and Winterfell at this point? There was no time for ravens to be sent before the Wall fell. Everyone there, I'm guessing, is dead and now a zombie. If Bran didn't see what happened at Eastwatch, the North is easy pickings. Night King can wrap this all up in 2 episodes with modern day transporter tech.

 

[Reverend]

So what, exactly, is standing between the NIght King and Winterfell at this point? There was no time for ravens to be sent before the Wall fell. Everyone there, I'm guessing, is dead and now a zombie. If Bran didn't see what happened at Eastwatch, the North is easy pickings. Night King can wrap this all up in 2 episodes with modern day transporter tech.

The scene started with Bran warged into the ravens that landed next to Tormund, so yeah, he most likely saw it all.
Speaking of Tormund, so far as we know he survived and given where we saw him last he's probably making his way along the top of the wall to Castle Black.

 

[Miss Chicken]

For a start The Last Hearth sits directly in the way between Eastwatch-by-Sea and Winterfell and, at least according to the books, the Last Hearth is about 500 miles from Winterfell. The Dreadfort is south of Last Heath but east of the most direct route the Walkers could take, and Karhold is east of The Last Hearth. Anyone travelling from The Dreadfort or Karhold to Winterfell would have could chance of spotting the Army of the Dead.

 

[Snaploud]

There is an unconfirmed report that season 8 may not be released until 2019. I suppose that gives George R. R. Martin some more time to at least finish the second-to-last book.

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/8/28/16214522/when-will-game-of-thrones-season-8-be-released-2019

 

[The Nth Doctor]

That's not the first time I've heard that report, and if the rumor that all of the episodes are going to be longer than usual (roughly the same length as "The Dragon and the Wolf"), then the later release date makes sense.

 

[EmoBorg]

Seeing Cersei, Jon Snow and Daeny together in the same scene was cool.

I thought Cersei would pull off a surpise attack on Daeny and the others during the meeting. When Bronn and Podrick walked off, i got a little nervious. Lucky nothing like that happened. Walking past Tyrion, Cersei stare at him was pure gold.

I thought Qyburn wanted to keep the dead man's hand so he could experiment with it later.

Cersei's plan for Daeny and Jon Snow to fight it out with the White Walkers while she maintained her army's strength made sense tactically but strategically it was a fatal plan. If the White Walkers won, then she would be f**ked. Better to meet the undead threat early on in the North, then later meeting it in King's Landing when the dead numbers had swelled up by then.

.
Bye Bye Littlefinger. Your plotting and double dealing ways lead to the war between the Lannisters and Starks. You deserved your death.

In the Bran's wedding flashback, Rhaegar looked awfully like Viserys.

BTW If Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love, why couldn't they just proclaim it openly. Robert and Ned started a bloody war because they thought that Rhaegar had kidnapped Lyanna. I know that Mad King had killed Ned's father and brother (reminds me of Daeny killiing Randyll and Dickon Tarly), but If Rhaegar and Lyanna had been more open about their relationship, then the whole war would not have started.

 

[Miss Chicken]

They could not proclaim it because Rhaegar was married. The Lords and Ladies of Westeros thought it was scandalous that when he won the Tourney of Harrenhal he choose Lyanna as the Queen of of Love and Beauty riding past his own wife to give flowers to Lyanna, their reaction to a relationship between a married prince and an highborn lady who was betrothed to another man would have met with even stronger disapproval.

 

[EmoBorg]

Enough to start a war over ? I don't think so.

Rhaegar was an idiot if you ask me. He annulled his marriage to Elia Martell so that he could get married to Lyanna. Fine but not telling the world about it led to Ned Stark's father and brother thinking that their sister had been kidnapped. That lead to the ill fated meeting with the Mad King.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Did Littlefinger *really* start this war, though? I mean, yeah, Arryn's death made Robert suspicious and put Ned Stark in King's Landing, but Cersei was determined to get rid of Robert before that, and Joffrey was always going to be a mad king. Do we really believe Stannis and Ned et al would've just accepted Robert's death at face value and ignored the fact that Joffrey was just as bad as the king they deposed?

 

[EmoBorg]

Littlefinger started the war between the Starks and the Lannisters. Arya mentioned that in the last episode. As for Robert, was there evidence that he was as bad as Joffrey ? I could only recall his heavy drinking and womanizing as his negative points.

 

[dahj]

Did Littlefinger *really* start this war, though?

Well, yeah. He didn't cause it, but he definitely started it.

 

[Reverend]

Enough to start a war over ? I don't think so.

Maybe you should go ask the Trojans their opinion on the subject? Or maybe Peter I of Portugal? Or maybe just go read a history book in general?

Did Littlefinger *really* start this war, though? I mean, yeah, Arryn's death made Robert suspicious and put Ned Stark in King's Landing, but Cersei was determined to get rid of Robert before that, and Joffrey was always going to be a mad king. Do we really believe Stannis and Ned et al would've just accepted Robert's death at face value and ignored the fact that Joffrey was just as bad as the king they deposed?

He indeed start *this* string of wars and was greasing the wheels almost every step of the way.

Had he not gotten involved Jon Arryn would have lived and almost certainly exposed what he'd learned of Cersei. Rob would have had her and Jamie executed for treason, probably have ordered their children put to the sword too (though Arryn may have talked him down to sending them to Casterly Rock, or exiled to Essos.) He may have even gone as far as stripping Tywin of his lands and titles, effectively ending house Lannister. I doubt any of the other houses would have rallied to his defence and few of his bannermen would have been suicidal enough to join him in defeat.

The Starks would have never left the north, the Greyjoys, Boltons & Freys would have never gotten so ambitions and house Arryn would certainly not have been as idle. That also means Rob's rule would have lasted at least until Daenerys' invasion some years later (possibly with Tywin as her King's hand.) That should be in time for someone to actually listen to the Night's Watch's repeated warnings and as a result, you can bet there would have been much less shenanigans at the alternate version of that meeting we just witnesses.

So yes, there would certainly have been wars regardless, but different wars, not the ones that actually happened and it's reasonable to assume they would not have been anywhere near as bloody or destructive, meaning they'd be in a much better position to unite against the Night King.

 

[Starkers]

I'm bothered by the cut from Tyrion finding out Cersei is pregnant to her coming out to talk. Just what happened between those two points? Despite how much he hates her, clearly there was a palpable sense of guilt he feels over the death of Myrcella and Tommen. Would assuaging that guilt by protecting an unborn niece/nephew be enough to make him betray Daeny?

 

[Reverend]

I'm bothered by the cut from Tyrion finding out Cersei is pregnant to her coming out to talk. Just what happened between those two points? Despite how much he hates her, clearly there was a palpable sense of guilt he feels over the death of Myrcella and Tommen. Would assuaging that guilt by protecting an unborn niece/nephew be enough to make him betray Daeny?

In a word: No.

 

[Captain Shaw]

If the white walkers happen to walk past a graveyard would they be able to increase their numbers?
Or do you have to be killed by one of them to become a white walker?

 

[EmoBorg]

Cersei said that she has hired the Golden Company from Essos to fight for her. Two things about the Company. Jorah Mormont served in it after his exile. And it was founded by Aegor Rivers, a half Targaryen bastard. It should be interesting when they take to the field in season 8.

 

[Venardhi]

If the white walkers happen to walk past a graveyard would they be able to increase their numbers?
Or do you have to be killed by one of them to become a white walker?

Everyone north of the wall burns their dead no matter what kills them. The implication is that they can raise any dead.

It is unfortunate that they haven't bothered to present any rules for the Night King or his White Walkers other than how to kill them. Without rules there are no stakes for the audience to consider. No tension as those stakes are slowly raised. In the books we're told the Wall isn't just ice, if it were the Others would have breached it generations ago. Something else has to happen, something that isn't just an increase in firepower.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

BTW If Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love, why couldn't they just proclaim it openly. Robert and Ned started a bloody war because they thought that Rhaegar had kidnapped Lyanna. I know that Mad King had killed Ned's father and brother (reminds me of Daeny killiing Randyll and Dickon Tarly), but If Rhaegar and Lyanna had been more open about their relationship, then the whole war would not have started.

Enough to start a war over ? I don't think so.

Rhaegar was an idiot if you ask me. He annulled his marriage to Elia Martell so that he could get married to Lyanna. Fine but not telling the world about it led to Ned Stark's father and brother thinking that their sister had been kidnapped. That lead to the ill fated meeting with the Mad King.

This issue is that prince Rhaegar was already married, with two children. The picture has been unfolding slowly in the books and on the show, but the way it seems now, is that Rhaegar didn't love Ellia the same way she loved him.

Originally, Rhaegar was bethrothed to Cersei. This was Tywin's doing when he was Hand of the King to Aerys (the Mad King). Aerys and Tywin were feuding and scheming against one another. So, Aerys set up Rhaegar (the crown prince and next in line to be king) to be wed to the princess of Dorne (Ellia), instead of Cersei. Rhaegar fell in love with Lyanna Stark and the two of them ran away together (all Romeo and Juliet like) and were married in secret.

Presumably, he married Lyanna for love and married Ellia because he was commanded to. It should be noted that Rhaegar's children with Ellia (Jon's half-siblings) were between the ages of 1 and 3, when they were murdered by the Lannisters/when Jon was born. So Rhaegar nearly had 3 kids back to back to back. After having her second child with Rhaegar, Ellia nearly died giving birth and Aegon (Martell) was sickly at birth.

This was scandalous. Add in Lyanna being bethrothed to Robert and presumably just not that into him, as he was for her. Lyanna really was the "Helen of Troy" for Robert's Rebellion.

They could not proclaim it because Rhaegar was married. The Lords and Ladies of Westeros thought it was scandalous that when he won the Tourney of Harrenhal he choose Lyanna as the Queen of of Love and Beauty riding past his own wife to give flowers to Lyanna, their reaction to a relationship between a married prince and an highborn lady who was betrothed to another man would have met with even stronger disapproval.

Not just that, but would Rhaegar have even been allowed to get an anullment and be remarried so quickly? My knowledge of Medieval laws for martimony are lacking, but I was under the impression that a person could not get an anullment (different from a divorce) if a marriage had produced children.




@Littlefinger
This video is from 2014 and perfectly predicts all of Littlefinger's plans before the show revealed them.

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[Beagleman]

Not just that, but would Rhaegar have even been allowed to get an anullment and be remarried so quickly? My knowledge of Medieval laws for martimony are lacking, but I was under the impression that a person could not get an anullment (different from a divorce) if a marriage had produced children.

Yes, to my knowledge (also lacking) the most common basis for anullment was that the marriage wasn't consummated and by the standard of the time that meant there was no marriage. Then again we are talking Medieval Christian European customs, who knows how it works over there (book readers probably know )..

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I'm wondering if Cersei's pregnancy is actually a tumour as happened in the real world to Mary Tudor.