Jodie Whittaker is the 13th Doctor

[Relayer1]

Absolutely. But they obviously know they're doing something risky if they've been reading boards like this and hearing the vitriol.

I know I'm a cynical old bastard, but they absolutely knew they were kicking the top off a hornet's nest. It's great publicity and part of the game plan.

If the numbers do drop off again after the inevitable curiosity spike, they've still got the option to change the format to feature length 'specials' at Christmas, New Year, Easter and whatever...

 

[Starkers]

The good part about Series 11 being 14 months away is that at least some of the people who aren't happy now will come round or be willing to give her a try. There'll be that hard-core of haters (who've clearly never understood anything about the character they claim to enjoy watxching) who'll never change their minds but there'll also be new viewers coming in.

In fact, it's actually Chibnall more than Whittake who has a lot to prove in order to keep people coming back after that first episode.

Absolutely! I have no worries about Whittier, it's Chibnall who slightly concerns me (and to be fair I'm more in favour of him than I was a few years ago) I think I just fear he isn't remotely as good a writer as either RTD or Moffatt--whilst accepting that maybe that very fact will conversely make him a better showrunner!

 

[Astra]

I really think the ones upset are a noisy minority, like most internet outrages.

There are also the quiet ones that don't like it but don't want to say anything as they don't want to be shouted down by an overwhelming majority and simply don't feel it worth getting into a fight over it.

Like me.

 

[StCoop]

Absolutely! I have no worries about Whittier, it's Chibnall who slightly concerns me (and to be fair I'm more in favour of him than I was a few years ago) I think I just fear he isn't remotely as good a writer as either RTD or Moffatt--whilst accepting that maybe that very fact will conversely make him a better showrunner!

But he's certainly got more of a populist touch than Moffat does these days. (Sherlock's popularity is 95% down to its stars.)

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Ian Levine is an irrelevance.

Don't think I even know who he is. Should I keep it that way?

 

[Starkers]

But he's certainly got more of a populist touch than Moffat does these days. (Sherlock's popularity is 95% down to its stars.)

Well I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye when it comes to Moffat ;-) I kinda wish I'd watched Broardchuch now though. To be honest Power of Three and Dinos on a spaceship raised my opinion of Chibnall, I just query his ability to deliver a Blink or a Midnight.

 

[StCoop]

Don't think I even know who he is. Should I keep it that way?

If you've seen "Love & Monsters", Victor Kennedy is 100% based on Ian.

 

[The Wormhole]

I never did think Chibnall was the disastrous writer many people seem to. Granted he hasn't done any masterpieces, but his episodes are generally okay. In fact, the maligned Cyberwoman was actually the first Torchwood that held my interest. And I maintain that season 2 of Torchwood did have some great character work, so I'm cool with Chibnall running Doctor Who. And to his doubters, I will remind that he wrote that unproduced webisode from S7 where Rory's dad receives a letter from Rory explaining what happened to him and Amy in New York, which many considered one of modern Who's greatest and most emotional moments.

I just query his ability to deliver a Blink or a Midnight.

In all honesty, both are overrated. Okay, I like Blink, and it is a brilliant episode, I'm just sick of everyone declaring it the best Doctor Who ever. Its popularity has actually soured it for me, if that makes sense.

Midnight just never impressed me. It's one of the two episodes from the RTD era I actually skip over. The other one is Fear Her.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Well I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye when it comes to Moffat

Coupling, Who, Sherlock, personally I've learnt to give Moffat 3 seasons before he starts getting out the shark hoops...

Blink or a Midnight

Fantastic episodes, but there's more to the list of writers than just the show runners. Personally I'm looking forward to someone I can trust with arcs rather than just individual episodes.

 

[Neroon]

"They're messing with the character!!!"

If you hate the idea of them messing with the character, you stopped watching after Hartnell left.

No, sorry, they've been "messing with the character" the entire time, and you only complained now because yes, you ARE a sexist asshole.

Please do yourself - not to mention us poor mods who are already out of regenerations - a big favor and make it clearer next time to whom such comments are directed to. I had to read through a fair amount to determine it was aimed more at the generic, editorial type of "you" as opposed to actual members here.

 

[Starkers]

I never did think Chibnall was the disastrous writer many people seem to. Granted he hasn't done any masterpieces, but his episodes are generally okay. In fact, the maligned Cyberwoman was actually the first Torchwood that held my interest. And I maintain that season 2 of Torchwood did have some great character work, so I'm cool with Chibnall running Doctor Who. And to his doubters, I will remind that he wrote that unproduced webisode from S7 where Rory's dad receives a letter from Rory explaining what happened to him and Amy in New York, which many considered one of modern Who's greatest and most emotional moments.

In all honesty, both are overrated. Okay, I like Blink, and it is a brilliant episode, I'm just sick of everyone declaring it the best Doctor Who ever. Its popularity has actually soured it for me, if that makes sense.

Midnight just never impressed me. It's one of the two episodes from the RTD era I actually skip over. The other one is Fear Her.

I never got the hoo hear about that scene with Rory's dad and I'm glad it wasn't filmed because it's essentially the scene from Blink where Kathy's grandson delivers the letter to Sally.

I'd agree that Chibnall's 2nd season Torchwood work is better (especially Adrift) and as I said maybe the showrunner doesn't necessarily have to be the best writer on staff

 

[The Wormhole]

I never got the hoo hear about that scene with Rory's dad and I'm glad it wasn't filmed because it's essentially the scene from Blink where Kathy's grandson delivers the letter to Sally.

I agree, but everyone loved it anyway.

I'd agree that Chibnall's 2nd season Torchwood work is better (especially Adrift) and as I said maybe the showrunner doesn't necessarily have to be the best writer on staff

One thing Chibnall does have going for him is that he seems willing to do something different. Although the end result is questionable, I applaud him for the Torchwood episode Countrycide for the simple fact that it doesn't go ahead and hamfist aliens, monsters or some other sci-fi element into a story where it wasn't necessary. Which is something both RTD and Moffat are extremely guilty of. I'm hoping he can turn out to be a much needed rejuvenation to the show, which quite frankly has been stagnating that past few years.

 

[Australis]

There are also the quiet ones that don't like it but don't want to say anything as they don't want to be shouted down by an overwhelming majority and simply don't feel it worth getting into a fight over it.

Like me.

This.

I woke up this morning and had found the perfect word to explain what's going on.

Keep in mind a lot of fans are OLD like me. They aren't sexist (though they do use sexist terms), they are conservative. They don't like change. Or more accurately, in a life of constant change, they like some certainties. And, in a way, a role model has been removed, especially in Capaldi. Despite terrible stories, he was their guy. Now he's gone, and we/they have to adapt yet again to change, big change.

I say "we/they", because if there is one thing I have never saw myself as, it's conservative, so I try at every turn to embrace change. Right now in Australia we are having a massive debate re coal power vs renewables. The conservative argument is basically "It works, if it ain't broke..." while not acknowledging the levels of pollution are unsustainable. I can't wait for renewables to grab a permanent, stable foothold. But there are those that fear change. Fear change.

Now, for guys like me, role models (and yes, we still need them) are a guide to being a better person... and we have one less. Gender shouldn't matter but it does. Who's my role model now? Frank Underwood? People become fans because they get something from the characters.

I give you a hypothetical. In a brain-snap of epic proportions, DC decides Wonder Woman should become Wonder Man, Dion of Themiscyra. Shield, bracelets, lasso, but a costume closer to Cap's. They come up with all 'valid' reasons for it (see: Thor). Women across America would gather at DC's headquarters and literally raze it. Of course they would. It is a change they would not embrace.

And now old white guys are expected, yet again, to roll over, at the risk of being called sexist.

I've always seen myself as a progressive, but I'm old now. This one is a little harder. Frankly it feels like it's something being taken from me. You can poopoo that, but just run the above hypothetical through your mind and see how you'd feel. Don't tell me you'd be happy. But, as I said, I try to be progressive, so I'm going to embrace this, as I always try to do. Just remember, some guys find it hard to change. Why shouldn't they? To just dismiss them as sexist is cruel and as sexist as you claim.

(Man, I wish I'd come up with this argument pages ago).

TL;DR: it's not about sexism, it' just being conservative.

 

[The Wormhole]

Keep in mind a lot of fans are OLD like me. They aren't sexist (though they do ue sexist terms), they are conservative. They don't like change. Or more accurately, in a life of constant change, they like some certainties. And, in a way, a role model has been removed, especially in Capaldi. Despite terrible stories, he was their guy. Now he's gone, and we/they have to adapt yet again to change, big change.

That's just nonsense. Doctor Who is all about change, and the minute Capaldi was cast everyone knew he wasn't staying permanently.

Besides, I guarantee everyone who is against a female Doctor will be glued to their TV every night of Whittaker's run. Mind you, they'll likely rationalize it to themselves as wanting to watch the show become the trainwreck they accurately predicted it would become, but they'll be watching it all the same.

Though really, when has this sort of predictions ever become accurate? Katee Sackhoff turned out to be a success as Starbuck, and Daniel Craig shut up those craignotbond fools.

 

[Australis]

@The Wormhole

It's not nonsense. You are disregarding them, just as I said. I get where you're coming from, as I said, embrace change. But, as we can see in any political situation in any country right now (Brexit, China, Trump, Le Pen), some people don't, and to them their reasons are valid.

 

[StCoop]

Now, for guys like me, role models (and yes, we still need them) are a guide to being a better person... and we have one less. Gender shouldn't matter but it does. Who's my role model now? Frank Underwood? People become fans because they get something from the characters.

Thing is women have to constantly accept male role models so why shouldn't men have to accept female ones?

I just had a look at Top 20 Movie chart for the US and it's 12 with male leads, 3 with joint leads and 4 with female leads and I suspect that's a better average than a lot of weeks.

 

[StCoop]

But, as we can see in any political situation in any country right now (Brexit, China, Trump, Le Pen), some people don't, and to them their reasons are valid.

Any reason that treats women as second-class can never be valid.

 

[Australis]

@StCoop

I don't disagree with anything you said. I'm just trying to fill in the mindset.

Also, don't equate message with messenger. I will embrace this change, but some will not (see: Ian Levine).

 

[Awesome Possum]

The ones who reject change deserve to be left behind. Nothing good was ever accomplished by people who wanted things to stay the same.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Now, for guys like me, role models (and yes, we still need them) are a guide to being a better person... and we have one less. Gender shouldn't matter but it does. Who's my role model now? Frank Underwood? People become fans because they get something from the characters.

I give you a hypothetical. In a brain-snap of epic proportions, DC decides Wonder Woman should become Wonder Man, Dion of Themiscyra. Shield, bracelets, lasso, but a costume closer to Cap's. They come up with all 'valid' reasons for it (see: Thor). Women across America would gather at DC's headquarters and literally raze it. Of course they would. It is a change they would not embrace.

And now old white guys are expected, yet again, to roll over, at the risk of being called sexist.

In terms of who your role model could be, if you want someone of the same gender and ethnicity, you have about 75% of people in the spotlight to choose from. I can understand (even I don't agree with) gender being an issue, but that's because as males, we've never had to hunt for heroes who match our gender and then resort to otherwise, because that's pretty much all the world has ever given us.

Of course women would rally if Wonder Woman was gender swapped, not only was she written specifically as a female role model, but it would be adding to the inequality that is the gender ratio of men/women in the spotlight.

It's not about old white men rolling over, it's about white men giving someone else a fairer chance for a change.