Sorry - load of crap is a load of crap...
ST
is dead...
ST
is dead...
Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed
- Thread starter captainkirk
- Start date
Well than TOS nowNice Douglas Adams reference.
I am in no way convinced this is true. I still believe the point of divergence was well before the Nero even arrived - back to the events of Star Trek: First Contact in 2063, perhaps - and that Star Trek: Enterprise actually took place in the nuVerse. I'll admit that there's nothing in canon that fully supports my position - but there's also nothing that definitively contradicts it.
None of which negates that this new show is stated as meant to depict events in the Prime universe. I will accept that as correct unless/until actual events depicted (not just effects, but actual events) seem to me to contradict it.
The movies were set AFTER TOS and it moves forward with its visual look that's why it's easily acceptable. The motion picture(and TNG,VOY AND DS9) looks closer to what Discovery is than TOS. Now ST:ENTERPRISE while more polished looking than TOS did try to make things seem a bit more TOS with winky blinky lights, communicators etc. and in the end kinda bridge it a bit more. But it looked more contemporary NASA than anything. But it was so far removed from TOS It wasn't a big issue.
Again no one is saying it needs to be filmed , lighted, sfx'ed like TOS. BUT it needs to share some visual cues with as least the cage. Uniforms would have been a good start.
Look at the show Bonanza for example. It's filming style changed over the course of 14 seasons and less sound stages were used. Michael Landon grew his hair long.lol We're it was filmed was changed. But overall style and look still fit. So would it have hurt to have a more consistent feel with this one? A more organic blend of what will come with today's filming and costuming techniques. Again look at what ST:ENT did in a mirror darkly with the TOS sets, costumes,props and sfx....
Last edited:
I just want this to be good, I don't give a flying Grayson what timeline it's in (I guess because I like the recent films - or because reasons). I'll watch the pilot off the CBS network, but I can't afford yet another streaming service right now just for one show, Let me know if it's good...
Yup. So it could still be Kelvin even if Vulcan were alive and kicking.
A
Amaris
Guest
Because people want to make certain their arguments about why Star Trek is dead are canon arguments.
If they're killing Star Trek wouldn't it be easier to use cannon?
Bingo. No surprise that one modern Trek show looks more like that other Trek update than a pilot shot in the 1960s. And updated visuals don't "prove" anything, plot-wise. They're just art direction and window dressing, updated for modern audiences. Just take them as what they really are: a modern look for a modern Trek. series. No in-universe explanation is required.
Sometimes artistic license trumps nostalgia.
This is such fucking nonsense.
It's not the Prime timeline.
It's not the Kelvin timeline.
It's just another version of Star Trek.
I guarantee that in the first year there will be story points that will reassure some fans that the writers are working with the old continuity, and other story points that will drive them up the wall.
One week people will be trying to spike the ball about some throwaway bit: "See, that proves this is the TOS/TNG timeline, because that happened!"
A week later the other team will have captured the "canon" flag and will be waving it around.
The screaming about "canon violations" will dwarf the furor around Enterprise.
Or...you can just relax, forget about how this fits with the other shows and enjoy this one - or not.
It's not the Prime timeline.
It's not the Kelvin timeline.
It's just another version of Star Trek.
I guarantee that in the first year there will be story points that will reassure some fans that the writers are working with the old continuity, and other story points that will drive them up the wall.
One week people will be trying to spike the ball about some throwaway bit: "See, that proves this is the TOS/TNG timeline, because that happened!"
A week later the other team will have captured the "canon" flag and will be waving it around.
The screaming about "canon violations" will dwarf the furor around Enterprise.
Or...you can just relax, forget about how this fits with the other shows and enjoy this one - or not.
I still think it's hilarious that the same people who jumped way the hell down ENT's throat for the slightest perceived violation of Trek canon are the ones who are now saying that continuity doesn't matter and that anyone can do whatever they want at any time. 
I have to admit, I am a little surprised at how closely Discovery seems to be following the look of the Abrams films. I had sort of assumed that they would create their own look with influences from both sources. These look like they could have come right out of a fourth Kelvin timeline film. (Which speaks a lot as to the quality of the production, IMO.)
But I feel like this is actually more consistent with the Prime universe than I was expecting. As has been pointed out, both the Kelvin and the Franklin existed before the divergence in Trek '09, so this is consistent with Trek history as we know it. It does leave the Cage in a weird place for now, but until Pike's Enterprise shows up on Discovery as an Abrams-style ship, we can probably assume that it's a vessel with a more forward-thinking design aesthetic, with a new set of uniforms doled out in Starfleet's usual established hodgepodge manner. (Remember that even post-First Contact there were ships running around with crews sporting season 3 era Next Gen uniforms, according to DS9.)
TC
But I feel like this is actually more consistent with the Prime universe than I was expecting. As has been pointed out, both the Kelvin and the Franklin existed before the divergence in Trek '09, so this is consistent with Trek history as we know it. It does leave the Cage in a weird place for now, but until Pike's Enterprise shows up on Discovery as an Abrams-style ship, we can probably assume that it's a vessel with a more forward-thinking design aesthetic, with a new set of uniforms doled out in Starfleet's usual established hodgepodge manner. (Remember that even post-First Contact there were ships running around with crews sporting season 3 era Next Gen uniforms, according to DS9.)
TC
Uniform design isn't a big deal. In most modern militaries there's a wide diversity of uniform styles; no reason Starfleet of 2254 would be any different. 
Well since you played the idiot card I guess all contrary points of view are automatically null and void. Damn. I should have use the idiot card first.
Timeline issues aside, some modicum of effort to make Discovery appear as if truly takes place a decade before the legendary Five Year Mission of TOS and TAS should have been put into place. Instead, we have a show that far exceeds any of the original series' successors in its conveyance of a futuristic setting and aesthetic. Obviously, yes, CBS desires as large of a fanbase as possible (despite the streaming exclusivity, which will only prove counter-intuitive to this) and creating a 'Phase II' TOS aesthetic would not accomplish this. Nonetheless, there are numerous ways to accommodate Discovery to that era: the bridge should at least feature at least a few homages to the TOS NCC-1701, and the uniforms should, without a doubt, resemble what Pike's crew wore in 'The Cage'/'The Menagerie'.
The redesigned Klingons are simply atrocious (from any consideration) and, once again, demonstrate that no effort was made by the producers to connect Discovery to the timeframe in which it is set. It's so sad to see that the Klingons have finally made their full transformation into purely monstrous-looking beings. The nuance actors like John Colicos, William Campbell and Michael Ansara brought to their Klingons will be utterly impossible to be conveyed through these monstrosities, even if they are portrayed by the very greatest actors of our era...
Star Trek shouldn't be about flashy visual effects, brooding, dull characters, or excessively monstrous aliens. This was a franchise underpinned by humanism, story-telling, idealism, adventure, and subtlety...once.
The redesigned Klingons are simply atrocious (from any consideration) and, once again, demonstrate that no effort was made by the producers to connect Discovery to the timeframe in which it is set. It's so sad to see that the Klingons have finally made their full transformation into purely monstrous-looking beings. The nuance actors like John Colicos, William Campbell and Michael Ansara brought to their Klingons will be utterly impossible to be conveyed through these monstrosities, even if they are portrayed by the very greatest actors of our era...
Star Trek shouldn't be about flashy visual effects, brooding, dull characters, or excessively monstrous aliens. This was a franchise underpinned by humanism, story-telling, idealism, adventure, and subtlety...once.
Which means that short of them explicitly including the Kelvin and/or Captain Robau as cameos in an episode, the timeline is completely irrelevant: aside from that singular event, almost everything else between the Kelvin and Primelines should be almost exactly the same right up until the destruction of Vulcan. But if they could drop a mention of the Kelvin and/or Robau without getting sued, there'd be no reason to stick to the Prime timeline and they could just make it a tie-in with the movies. So it's a Catch-22: they won't mention the split, therefore the split won't matter.
I would go so far as to say that DSC could easily take place almost the same way at the same time in BOTH timelines even if what we're seeing is the "Prime" version of those events. Maybe the Kelvinverse DSC has a slightly bigger ship and a slightly smaller space suit?
Wasn't there here some show that tried to explain why the TOS Klingons were smooth headed? I ignore that episode because I don't need it and I can suspend disbelief and pretended the Klingons always had ridges. So it will be the same with Discovery. I can pretend that TOS and Discovery fit nicely together and my imagination can resolve any visual differences.
I love the look of the look of the Kelvin time line and the look of Discovery so I'm good and looking forward to this new show!
I love the look of the look of the Kelvin time line and the look of Discovery so I'm good and looking forward to this new show!
What's important is the events. The "look" of the Star Trek is going to change. I don't accept visuals as what actually "happens" in a story, it's just a portrayal of it. Do you believe that sound carries through the vacuum of space in the Star Trek universe just because that's what we see on TV? We accept the events of plays and don't mind that the stage is obviously not an exact stand in for the location the play is set in.
As far as the Klingons, it's been speculated these are "ancient" Klingons that have been awoken, not contemporary Klingons.
I truly do hope these 'Klingons' are some awoken ancient, pre-evolved variety, at least. The uniforms should still resemble what was worn in 'The Cage' or throughout TOS. Enterprise was already approaching that uniform near the end anyway...and that was set long before Discovery.
Sure.
"Prime timeline" doesn't mean anything, now. Everything about it is subject to change, and will be.
Similar threads
