That's how it's usually portrayed in fiction for sure, but cloning just means that the new organism has identical DNA to the original. There's no "has to be grown up like a person" rule.
Spoilers Logan - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Actually no. Cloning is the process, not the result.
If one were to be able to paint an image so realistic as to be indistinguishable from a photograph, it would still be a painting, not a photograph. The process is everything.
I know some hated X-24, and yes it brought to mind Terminator Genisys, but i thought it worked really well here to emphasise how old and worn out Logan was.
So heartbreaking that Logan didn't get to hear Xavier's last words.
So heartbreaking that Logan didn't get to hear Xavier's last words.
I give this movie a B+. Yes, overall I liked it. Jackman was terrific as always, but I found the ending such a downer.
We have followed the X Men for 17 years. Their final fate is that Professor X goes senile and kills them all, and then Logan dies of a combination of adamantium poisoning and getting killed by a clone of his younger self.
Ok, it was a very heroic death for Logan, though the entire X Men kind of got really messed up.
That's horrible. I do hope that a future movie somehow avoids this fate.
We have followed the X Men for 17 years. Their final fate is that Professor X goes senile and kills them all, and then Logan dies of a combination of adamantium poisoning and getting killed by a clone of his younger self.
Ok, it was a very heroic death for Logan, though the entire X Men kind of got really messed up.
That's horrible. I do hope that a future movie somehow avoids this fate.
I've been wondering if the defeat of Rice and his people at the end of Logan, will mean the program that stopped new mutants from being born will end and could get more new mutants now.
If that does end up being the case, there are so many other X-Men the movies haven't used that I could easily see them creating a totally new group of X-Men from the kids and other new mutants, and then continuing on with the original group in movies set in the past.
If that does end up being the case, there are so many other X-Men the movies haven't used that I could easily see them creating a totally new group of X-Men from the kids and other new mutants, and then continuing on with the original group in movies set in the past.
Since he was doing it by putting gene-therapy stuff in the food chain, it seems like it'll be around at least until the company that's producing it runs out of stock. Unless of course the gene-modding has permanently capped of the x-gene so it doesn't get passed on to offspring anymore or (more likely) remains permanently recessive. In which case you're probably looking at a situation where mutants are all but extinct until some time in the future when someone either deliberately reverses the process, or some other random outside force switches does so (just like real mutation.)
I wouldn't worry about it though since I doubt this film will get a direct follow-on, at least not the world in which it takes place. I think the closest we're likely to get is the 'Hope' story with an older Laura filling in for Cable. Basically an all female take on 'The Road' but with time travel and robots.
Didn't he? I thought Charles spoke about the Sunseeker with Logan just before dying.
^ That was X-24 listening to him.
...
B+ for me. As much as it tries to break all the comic-book rules... it really isn't all that radical in the end, IMO.
We get a new generation of mutants to replace the ones lost (and how the hell did those kids make it out to that valley?! Teleportation?!), we still get a male leading them, we still get a final battle in which multiple powers are wielded, we still get a fake-out demise from not-dead-yet X-24, and we still get two scene-fulls of completely gratuitous violence (the guys trashing his car at the beginning, and then the "Okie dickheads" hassling the family). Heck, the whole family scene itself wasn't all that far from the "nice farm family" in Origins: Wolverine, apart from the brutality of their deaths. Laura's "X" in the final shot teases her taking up the X-Men mantle as much as the ending of X-Men: Apocalypse teases more First Class cast movies did, even if this particular character iteration and cast don't get a film series of their own. And did I mention a polite, smooth-talking English villain? Not exactly breaking ground there. (+5 points for a completely unnecessary "you killed my father" backstory.) We even get some lines in which he says that his dirty work is necessary to maintain peace in a dirty world, which is pretty much the same thing Vincent D'Onofrio says in Jurassic World, only that character was meant to be poking fun at the cliche.
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose." The third-act action climax works, dramatically, but I can't help wondering if keeping the rest of the kids out of the picture wouldn't have been better in the long run. I wish that, instead of the farm family (#BlackGuyDiesFirst), they trio had somehow met up with Shreiber's Sabretooth (I too totally thought X-24 was him for a moment). What if Victor, of all people, had managed to settle down and have a quiet, peaceful family out in the woods somewhere?!
The ending was fine and moving and all, but I would have liked some third-act weirdness, as the one we got was ultimately pretty conventional. The ending of Atonement, for instance, took me completely by surprise and really knocked me on my ass - it's unique and daring and jarring, but when you get to the very end, you see how it all works. I know we just had time-travel shenanigans with DoFP, but I wonder if some similar hint of like weirdness/time-fixing could have been planted without derailing the tone.
Finally, I can't help but thinking it would have been better if society had shown to be generally crumbling. Not all at once, Judgment Day/DoFP style, but gradually. No new/shiny cars even for the bad guys, flat screen TVs breaking down without replacements, gas shortages, that sort of thing. Much like Mad Max (the first one). Oh, and government-sponsored human mutant-targeting Blade Runners, if you will, would have been a better explanation for the complete demise of mutantkind beyond "Charles had a bad day, and killed them all, thus pretty much entirely validating peoples' anti-mutant paranoia."
...
B+ for me. As much as it tries to break all the comic-book rules... it really isn't all that radical in the end, IMO.
We get a new generation of mutants to replace the ones lost (and how the hell did those kids make it out to that valley?! Teleportation?!), we still get a male leading them, we still get a final battle in which multiple powers are wielded, we still get a fake-out demise from not-dead-yet X-24, and we still get two scene-fulls of completely gratuitous violence (the guys trashing his car at the beginning, and then the "Okie dickheads" hassling the family). Heck, the whole family scene itself wasn't all that far from the "nice farm family" in Origins: Wolverine, apart from the brutality of their deaths. Laura's "X" in the final shot teases her taking up the X-Men mantle as much as the ending of X-Men: Apocalypse teases more First Class cast movies did, even if this particular character iteration and cast don't get a film series of their own. And did I mention a polite, smooth-talking English villain? Not exactly breaking ground there. (+5 points for a completely unnecessary "you killed my father" backstory.) We even get some lines in which he says that his dirty work is necessary to maintain peace in a dirty world, which is pretty much the same thing Vincent D'Onofrio says in Jurassic World, only that character was meant to be poking fun at the cliche.
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose." The third-act action climax works, dramatically, but I can't help wondering if keeping the rest of the kids out of the picture wouldn't have been better in the long run. I wish that, instead of the farm family (#BlackGuyDiesFirst), they trio had somehow met up with Shreiber's Sabretooth (I too totally thought X-24 was him for a moment). What if Victor, of all people, had managed to settle down and have a quiet, peaceful family out in the woods somewhere?!
The ending was fine and moving and all, but I would have liked some third-act weirdness, as the one we got was ultimately pretty conventional. The ending of Atonement, for instance, took me completely by surprise and really knocked me on my ass - it's unique and daring and jarring, but when you get to the very end, you see how it all works. I know we just had time-travel shenanigans with DoFP, but I wonder if some similar hint of like weirdness/time-fixing could have been planted without derailing the tone.
Finally, I can't help but thinking it would have been better if society had shown to be generally crumbling. Not all at once, Judgment Day/DoFP style, but gradually. No new/shiny cars even for the bad guys, flat screen TVs breaking down without replacements, gas shortages, that sort of thing. Much like Mad Max (the first one). Oh, and government-sponsored human mutant-targeting Blade Runners, if you will, would have been a better explanation for the complete demise of mutantkind beyond "Charles had a bad day, and killed them all, thus pretty much entirely validating peoples' anti-mutant paranoia."
43/44ths of a clone.
X-24 was there for Charles talking (inside the house) about about what happened at Westchester, the Sunseeker talk was (as far as I recall) after Logan carried Charles out to the truck.
And heaps of people tore him a new one for it. You can't win!
Aye. The guy who says this...
“The only way we came out with a different movie was trying to do it differently,” he told The Toronto Sun. “So I was pretty fanatical about saying, ‘If this is how these other movies are doing it, we’re going the other way.’ If there’s normally a cameo or an end-credit scene, we’re not doing that. That’s essentially turning it into a product that has to come out of the widget machine the same way every time and that’s not how the best movies are going to get made... in any genre.”
Is the same guy who also says this:
I think Dafne is incredible in the film and I would love to see another film about that character and that’s certainly something I’d be involved in.
So his movie is nothing like the other superhero movies, and also it sets up a possible Wolverine-based spinoff he'd totally like to get paid for helping make. A case of having a cake and eating a cake, just a tad?
Actually if we're talking chromosomes there are only 23 base pairs per--oooooooh. Now I get it!43/44ths of a clone.
Also, I guess there's no explanation for why three fugitives from highly resourceful killers decide to stay in an urban, high-rise casino-hotel rather than some fleabag roadside motel? Logan offers the car saleswoman an extra two ground (IIRC) to keep paperwork out of his vehicle purchase, but large hotels such as that require you to show ID even if you pay for your room in cash. Either he has a valid fake ID for his chauffeur-ing purposes, which he could use to buy the car, or he doesn't, in which case, how did he rent the room?
Charles said "These are not the mutants you are looking for!" to her?
^ Security cameras? Facial recognition? Security people monitoring CCTV footage, when the Reavers have the connections and resources to blast Wanted alerts across multiple states?
Also, given that Xavier accidentally killed a whole bunch of people with his mind, many of them American citizens (mutant or no), wouldn't he and his fellow fugitive Logan be major law enforcement targets? And yet they seem to be mostly ignored; the Reavers weren't even after them until Laura came around. Yet another advantage of an alternate Mad Max (original)-esque crumbling society setting - with major governments falling apart, their fading away would be more plausible.
Also, given that Xavier accidentally killed a whole bunch of people with his mind, many of them American citizens (mutant or no), wouldn't he and his fellow fugitive Logan be major law enforcement targets? And yet they seem to be mostly ignored; the Reavers weren't even after them until Laura came around. Yet another advantage of an alternate Mad Max (original)-esque crumbling society setting - with major governments falling apart, their fading away would be more plausible.
^That's assuming they even knew he was responsible. The impression I got was that even Charles didn't know. Presumably because Logan didn't stick around and got him out of there fast, so by the time he came back around they were already on the road.
But yeah, the world seemed either distopian or right on the verge of it. Maybe the corporations are really in charge now and the only surveillance they're interested in is tracking people's buying habits? Maybe a combination of overpopulation and a soaring homeless population thanks to automation (those self-driving trucks were quite telling) has made mass surveillance impractical. Or maybe what's left of the authorities simply don't care about a bunch of dead mutants and know to leave the Reavers to their business.
But yeah, the world seemed either distopian or right on the verge of it. Maybe the corporations are really in charge now and the only surveillance they're interested in is tracking people's buying habits? Maybe a combination of overpopulation and a soaring homeless population thanks to automation (those self-driving trucks were quite telling) has made mass surveillance impractical. Or maybe what's left of the authorities simply don't care about a bunch of dead mutants and know to leave the Reavers to their business.
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I also felt like it was an opportunity to really put Logan in that role of dealing with a sidekick. That was a large part of his character in many comics (Shadowcat, Jubilee), but it was never really explored in the movies (for Rogue, he was really just a babysitter/bodyguard, and Yukio sat out almost half of her movie).
I don't see anyone saying it's great because it eliminated all the superhero elements. I see people saying it's great and it eliminated a lot of the superhero elements, which are not mutually exclusive things but are also not causally related.
And I see people saying it's great in part because it eliminated specific tropes that people are seriously tired of, like sky beams, overreliance on cgi or forced quippiness. But avoiding common tropes that just aren't very good or are perhaps overdone is something different from eliminating superhero elements altogether.
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