Spoilers Logan - Grading & Discussion

[Tosk]

^^You'll have to be more clear. I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make. ...Is it because I said judge a movie on the content, not the rating? If so, I never said you judged it solely on the rating. I only took exception to the fact that you judged it on the rating at all. It's not like my opinion on it matters anyway. Judge it on whatever you want. And if you state it publicly, I'll judge that statement however I want.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

What I take issue with is the notion that a superhero movie can't have a meaningful story or include the the elements of what's considered to be a quality film.

You can, but a lot of the time it detracts from the movie when a guy dresses in spandex and wears a cape.

^ You'd have to find the right tone and balance.

Or just have a story the audience cares about seeing.

We have the dark, gritty and sometimes mean and ugly superhero movies/shows.
-The Dark Knight, Watchmen, V For Vendetta, Logan, Daredevil (Netflix)

The global threat, action drama superhero movies. Where cause and consequences of the heroes failure can be devastating.
- Days of Future Past, X2, First Class, Captain America TWS, Man of Steel

The individual focus, action drama superhero movies/shows. Where the conflict revolves more around the hero's personal struggles first and an exterior antagonist second.
- Iron Man 1-3, Spider-Man 1-3 and TASM 1-2, Dr Strange, The Flash, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones

The action comedy superhero movies/shows. Jokes, one-liners, pop culture references with a mix of good action.
-Deadpool, Ant-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy, Supergirl

Then you're popcorn superhero movies. Turn your brain off and enjoy, if that's possible.
-Thor 1-2, Suicide Squad, Age of Ultron, The Avengers, The Dark Knight Rises, X3, Legends of Tomorrow

This is how I break them down. Even if you don't agree, one can see that there is a WIDE net for superheroes and comic book properties. There's something for everyone and the general audience seems to be well satisfied with just about everything the various studios are putting out. However, there are no absolutes and the GA won't accept just anything put before them. Fantastic Four (2015) flopped hard, in an age where comic book properties are everywhere and new and untested IPs keep finding runaway success. Then you have films that perform below expectations and even their predecessors. Like TASM 2 (the lowest grossing Spidey movie), and X-Men Apocalypse (after Deadpool and DOFP killed it at the BO).

The audience well accept a lot of things, but the story and film experience the IP is offering what makes or breaks it.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

Last week, it was reported that “Logan” director James Mangold was working on a black and white version of the film. Now we have official confirmation from Mangold that the proposed black and white cut will be included when “Logan” is released on Blu-Ray and DVD.

While speaking with Deadline, Mangold elaborated on his previous comments, in which he said a black and white cut of “Logan” was something he was working on. “It is something we are doing,” he said. He then went on further, stating, “I think it even surprised everyone to the degree that there is a kind of a running assumption that black and white is a turnoff for most people. It caused such an extreme reaction, and so much appreciation for these pictures, and then people immediately wondering if the film itself was going to be in black and white, and so we are giving it a whirl, and I think the Blu-ray will come out with a pass on it. I think it will be a very handsome black and white version of the picture.”

Logan Blu-Ray Will Contain Black & White Version Of The Film

 

[JD]

I'm kind of torn on what I'd want them to do with X-23 in future movies. On one hand I wouldn't mind seeing an older version who could go the comics route and take over the Wolverine name and movies, but Dafne Keen did such a great job that I'd hate to see her lose the role.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Logan Blu-Ray Will Contain Black & White Version Of The Film

Sweet. I'm definitely looking forward to that. I know it would never happen, but I do wish the original film was black and white. Still, this is good enough.

I'm kind of torn on what I'd want them to do with X-23 in future movies. On one hand I wouldn't mind seeing an older version who could go the comics route and take over the Wolverine name and movies, but Dafne Keen did such a great job that I'd hate to see her lose the role.

How much older are we talking about (I know nothing about the character beyond this film)? They don't have to do a film right away and wait for Dafne Keen to grow up some, say 3-5 years.

 

[Unicron]

The comic version of X-23 was much older when she met Wolverine, around 18-20 IIRC. You can read her profile here.

 

[Snaploud]

One person commented that he had to watch Manchester by the Sea to cheer himself up after watching Logan. That sounds about right to me.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

The comic version of X-23 was much older when she met Wolverine, around 18-20 IIRC. You can read her profile here.

Huh, that's surprising. Usually a film will make a character older than their source material in order to avoid certain issues with dealing with a child actor, especially with dealing with darker material (see: Ender's Game), and not make the character younger.

Still, waiting 3-5 years will bring Keen closer to the character's age.

 

[Unicron]

Yeah, I'd guesstimate that comic X is almost twice the age as film X. That being said, I think Dafne Keen did a fantastic job in the role and they kept the basic core of the character intact, so it'd be cool to see her do future work. Overall it's a fairly dark film, but I enjoyed it.

 

[Trekker4747]

Huh, that's surprising. Usually a film will make a character older their source material in order to avoid certain issues with dealing with a child actor, especially with dealing with darker material (see: Ender's Game), and not make the character younger.

Still, waiting 3-5 years will bring Keen closer to the character's age.

Indeed, but they probably saw too much opportunity with a father/daughter relationship between Logan and Laura and they found an awesome little actress for the part so they went with it. I agree, hope to see X-23 played by Keen again as she was just fearful and feral while also still being "a kid" fighting to survive in the world.

 

[JD]

Sweet. I'm definitely looking forward to that. I know it would never happen, but I do wish the original film was black and white. Still, this is good enough.


How much older are we talking about (I know nothing about the character beyond this film)? They don't have to do a film right away and wait for Dafne Keen to grow up some, say 3-5 years.

According to an interview I just read with Dafne Keen and James Mangold on CBR she's 12, so I guess we wouldn't have to wait as long as I thought. I was thinking she we was even younger that.
CBR has posted a bunch of other Logan articles since it came out:
Why Logan introduced that surprise villain
Joe Queseda shares uncolored artwork from in-film X-Men comic
Logan's Keen bruised Jackman's arm for her X-23 audition
Logan director explains why he didn't film the Westchester Incident
Watch Hugh Jackman add Wolverine's guttural growl to Logan action scene

 

[Tosk]

Indeed, but they probably saw too much opportunity with a father/daughter relationship between Logan and Laura and they found an awesome little actress for the part so they went with it.

That, and Mangold said he wanted to avoid the "Logan and his sexy sidekick" thing that may have happened if she were older.

 

[Phily B]

It was a good choice, that whole "older teenager" dynamic doesn't really seem to work for me a lot of the time. Most recently was that Jack Reacher movie, or Taken off the top of my head.

 

[Beagleman]

And Dafne was absolutely brilliant.

 

[The Habs Fan]

A+

This movie not only stands with the pillars of the X-Men franchise (X2, Days of Future Past, and Deadpool) but also is one of the best comic book movies ever made. I'm not sure which I rank first, but there is finally another movie to rival The Dark Knight for best comic book movie. This is the movie Suicide Squad should have been (bloody, brutal, and dark).

 

[Trekker4747]

I'd agree this movie is up there with "The Dark Knight" I'd probably say surpasses it because this movie has a much more dramatic tone and mood to it, as I said before there's very little "superhero elements" in it and TDK has them, not that there's wrong with anything with superhero elements but Logan just ends up coming out as a great movie that happens to have superhero elements in it. Just my opinion. I think thus movie stands out by not being a typical "supehero movie" with some big, global, threat or villain with sinister goals from shooting some beam of energy into the sky.

And Dafne was absolutely brilliant.

This really cannot be said enough, she's up there with Millie Bobbie Brown from Stranger Things, this girl is going to have one hell of a career ahead of her if she's kept on track. Granted she's not given a lot to work with here but when she starts delivering actual lines and character she does great, much like MBB's "Eleven" who doesn't speak much but delivers a lot in her performance particularly when using "her powers" and then does great when delivering dialogue, an actual scene.

MBB's Eleven it's easy to fear her from the way she portrays her "powers" and intensity.

DK doing X-23's powers... Jesus this is not a kid you want to mess with, she does a great job striking fear and the feral-ness of this take on X-23.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

A common thing I keep reading across the internet is that by (essentially) eliminating superhero elements from a movie that's part of the superhero genre, you start to get better movies. From Dark Knight to Logan now.

Do people just deep down not really like the superhero genre all that much?

I never read things like "this is a great sci-fi movie because they eliminated all of the sci-fi elements of it" or "this was a great western because they finally got rid of the western elements" for other genres like I have been reading all over the internet with Logan.

 

[The Habs Fan]

A common thing I keep reading across the internet is that by (essentially) eliminating superhero elements from a movie that's part of the superhero genre, you start to get better movies. From Dark Knight to Logan now.

Do people just deep down not really like the superhero genre all that much?

I never read things like "this is a great sci-fi movie because they eliminated all of the sci-fi elements of it" or "this was a great western because they finally got rid of the western elements" for other genres like I have been reading all over the internet with Logan.

I think it might be because of the over-saturation of comic book movies. People are slowly growing tired of the same old comic book tropes so when a comic book movie comes out that is very different than what has come before, it's like a breath of fresh air. Plus, when it's actually a good movie, that's even better.

 

[Greysun]

A great conclusion for Logan himself and an excellent introduction of X-23. They did this one very well, good use of the R rating.
My only real problem with it was X-24. I thought they could have put a lot of other interesting mutants in that position, it seemed a little silly to have another Wolverine clone running around. At least we got to see 23 blow his head off, hopefully that ends the Wolverine clone chorus line, leaving just her from now on.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

My only real problem with it was X-24. I thought they could have put a lot of other interesting mutants in that position, it seemed a little silly to have another Wolverine clone running around.

I thought it could have been nice (and way more dramatic) if they got Liev Schreiber back instead of using a Logan clone. As a Sabertooth clone (he was always more vicious and more what the scientists were looking for anywaya) or as the original. Your mileage may vary.