Spoilers The Flash - Season 3

[dahj]

Also doesn't the newspaper kind of undercuts any threat to Barry.

No more than him being in the title of the show

Given that Smallville and Supernatural lasted 10 seasons, it was reasonable to assume that that The Flash could do the same.

When the show was originally conceived Arrow was the only superhero show on TV, I doubt anyone was that optimistic back then, in fact Kreisberg spoke how they decided to go all out with the Weather Wizard, Captain Cold, Reverse Flash and all right off the bat because they weren't sure they will get to make more than the initial order of 13 episodes, so they tried to cram as many things as they could in there.

Green Lantern could be fun on TV, and would he require THAT much more effects than Flash?

I would love if they did a Earth-based Green Lanterns TV show with Jessica and Simon.

 

[Commander Richard]

When the show was originally conceived Arrow was the only superhero show on TV, I doubt anyone was that optimistic back then, in fact Kreisberg spoke how they decided to go all out with the Weather Wizard, Captain Cold, Reverse Flash and all right off the bat because they weren't sure they will get to make more than the initial order of 13 episodes, so they tried to cram as many things as they could in there.

That's surprising. I remember Arrow being quite popular, so I was pretty confident. In fact, when The Flash started, I talked about how they gave us a season 10 spoiler and I wasn't joking around.

 

[Xerxes82]

Just got caught up on the latest episode. This one was ok. Interesting that the Speed Force, in addition to bringing back a bunch of old cast members for cameos, only showed Barry the people whose deaths he got over without breaking the universe. He didn't seem to catch on to that one, either. Every dead character he met was somebody he was ok leaving dead. No attempt to change the past (see, Flashpoint). A great big red flag that Barry's attachments to certain people are a massive risk to the very fabric of the multiverse.

This one just fed my Savitar is Barry theory yet again. Some people Barry just can't let go of, and his rash choices continue to punish reality as a whole. In a future where Iris dies, Barry is going to lose it completely. I'll be curious to see if the show takes a different direction with Savitar, or if it pays off all these teases with a Future-Barry turned evil.

 

[Christopher]

Interesting that the Speed Force, in addition to bringing back a bunch of old cast members for cameos, only showed Barry the people whose deaths he got over without breaking the universe. He didn't seem to catch on to that one, either. Every dead character he met was somebody he was ok leaving dead. No attempt to change the past (see, Flashpoint). A great big red flag that Barry's attachments to certain people are a massive risk to the very fabric of the multiverse.

I think the point was to get Barry to stop blaming himself for all those deaths. The idea was that he was trapping himself there with his inability to let go of his guilt, that he couldn't free himself until he absolved himself. (Which again is like DS9 and the wormhole, since that was the lesson Sisko learned in "Emissary," that he was trapping himself by his inability to move past his wife's death. "You exist here.")

 

[The Old Mixer]

Jude

That, or somebody's got to hide their love away.

I should have pointed out that there are Beatles fans out there who are every bit as obsessive about their interest as the most obsessive Trek fan. I've hung out in such circles in the past.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That, or somebody's got to hide their love away.

I should have pointed out that there are Beatles fans out there who are every bit as obsessive about their interest as the most obsessive Trek fan. I've hung out in such circles in the past.

I went through a Beatles obsession in my teens and twenties. Records, books, posters, Beatle tribute groups. Trying to look like John Lennon. I was one factoid away from being Richard "Ringo" Klaus.

 

[Snaploud]

I think the point was to get Barry to stop blaming himself for all those deaths.

I don't think the writers did a good job expressing that message. The 'baby that never lived' is not going to alleviate Barry's guilt over his choices. Nor is a monologue about how that other dead guy was 'supposed to marry Iris.' If anything, the Speed Force seemed to be doing a good job finding ways to emotionally cripple Barry.

 

[cylkoth]

The Speed Force hates Barry too...

 

[Jax]

No more than him being in the title of the show

I was talking from the aspects of the characters lol

 

[Christopher]

I don't think the writers did a good job expressing that message. The 'baby that never lived' is not going to alleviate Barry's guilt over his choices. Nor is a monologue about how that other dead guy was 'supposed to marry Iris.' If anything, the Speed Force seemed to be doing a good job finding ways to emotionally cripple Barry.

The point was that he was crippling himself. In order to move past each scenario, he had to face it, accept it, and let it go -- to move on both literally and figuratively. Yes, all these losses happened. That's a fact. Nothing can change that. And accepting that nothing can change it is the first step in moving past it. After all, if nothing can change it, then punishing himself endlessly won't do any good. The ultimate point was, Barry's guilt was driving him to sacrifice himself to save Wally, and the Speed Force was trying to teach him that that was the wrong choice, that it was just giving into his need to punish himself for his mistakes rather than actually being the right solution. I thought the writing made it clear enough.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Another possibility is Savitar is a version of Barry from another Earth. That way, you can have the big reveal, without tainting Barry. Even if Savitar is Barry, if Barry prevents himself from becoming Savitar, then the character isn't tainted, and Savitar would become a time aberration.

 

[LJones41]

The point was that he was crippling himself. In order to move past each scenario, he had to face it, accept it, and let it go -- to move on both literally and figuratively. Yes, all these losses happened. That's a fact. Nothing can change that. And accepting that nothing can change it is the first step in moving past it. After all, if nothing can change it, then punishing himself endlessly won't do any good. The ultimate point was, Barry's guilt was driving him to sacrifice himself to save Wally, and the Speed Force was trying to teach him that that was the wrong choice, that it was just giving into his need to punish himself for his mistakes rather than actually being the right solution. I thought the writing made it clear enough.

It was pretty clear to me. I wonder if Barry is one of those types who indulge in self-flagellation, once they realize they have done something wrong. It's one thing to acknowledge it and try to avoid similar mistakes in the future (if possible). It's another to continually punish oneself without moving on.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Somebody should tell the Speed Force about the paper from the future that had Barry and Iris destined to marry before Eddie killed himself.

 

[Snaploud]

Somebody should tell the Speed Force about the paper from the future that had Barry and Iris destined to marry before Eddie killed himself.

I also thought that was weird, though there would still be time for Iris to divorce or become a widow. Barry could have been husband #2 (or higher).

 

[Gaith]

Mmmkay ... It was a treat to see Eddie, Snart, and Ronnie's manifestations in the Speed Force.

Correction: seeing the lesser Amell has never, ever, been a treat.

My impression was that, since neither of them wanted his proposal to be tainted by the threat to Iris's life, he's decided to focus exclusively on saving her life for now, and then to refocus on their relationship when and if the threat is finally averted. Just separate the two so he can pursue each one fully in its turn. At least, that's where I thought the conversation was going, but then it sort of lost direction at the end there.

The subtext was too awkward to discuss directly, but the problem is Iris' needs. Her... physical needs. Sweaty needs.

Barry now knows he's got to keep his head in the fighting game.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Are we sure they are doing it?

Barry must have taken advantage of Patty sharing his bed, or been grateful when she took advantage of him, which I saw the aftermath thereof at least once...

If Iris was waiting till she got married, then she never did it with Eddie, not that that matters, but it certainly explains Eddie's insecurities about their future, since Eddie's live-in girlfriend had never seen his penis.

 

[Gaith]

^ They're definitely doing it. They had some pillow talk about being busy at nights a few weeks ago. Hey, look, I got a sneak peek at the official novelization of this week's ep!

"I love you," Wally said.

Jesse Quick shivered. So many things were in flux, and now was not the time to tell Wally that she'd been having second, third, and fourth thoughts about moving to this Earth, about listening to him lie about his taste in classic films and tapas joints in an attempt to impress her, plus that thing he did with his tongue while Frenching was not an acceptable technique in any reality.

You should be honest with him, she heard her father's voice say inside her. But then, that voice had an agenda it didn't bother trying to hide. So many things were in flux - and Wally had just experienced such a devastating emotional blow. How should she reply? The way a hero would, she thought: selflessly."

"I love you, too," she lied.

​

 

[Guy Gardener]

Harry is a billionaire.

Jesse is like Ivanka, but with an applied science degree, superpowers and her original hair colour.

Is Jessie sharing a room, at Joe's place? Is Joe letting them ####? Do they live in separate rooms, or is she berthed at STARlabs?

If she is living with the Wests, that's a maaaassive step down in general opulence, from a Mistress of the Universe to seeming like a failure living with their parents Milennial, who can't afford her own apartment.

Earth 2 currency was probably all wrong, but a back pack stuffed full of diamonds could have kept Jessie kept in a lifestyle that she had become accustomed to very lavishly.

"Wally, I love you so much, that I'm willing to pretend that I am poor, to protect your fragile male ego."

 

[Phoenix219]

Actually, all punning aside, the gorillas should have used guerrilla warfare. Seriously. Sure, they're big and strong, but they're a few hundred soldiers on foot with medieval weaponry going up against a whole city in a highly technological civilization. Realistically, marching in with a conventional military formation would've been suicide. They would've needed to wield asymmetrical warfare tactics to have any hope.

Well, I guess that is what Grodd did when he captured the general and used him to launch the nuke. But why fall back on such crude tactics after that failed? Why not have his troops go underground, strike from the shadows, control minds one by one, infiltrate the city's power structure, and take over more gradually?

Speaking of things Grodd should've done but didn't, I noticed a big plot hole when I rewatched part 1: When they faked Barry's death to get Grodd to take him out of the cage, why didn't Grodd read their minds and know it was a trick?

Have they shown him actually using telepathy to read someones mind? He uses it to communicate like a normal person, since he's a gorilla and can't talk. He can control minds completely. But I haven't seen the subtle use of the ability, as in literally implanting hypnotic suggestions, picking out single memories, or any of the other more traditional telepathic capabilities, other then the full puppet mind control/using humans as vessels of sorts.

 

[Phoenix219]

"Not your fault."

What the fuck? It's all entirely Barry Allen's fault. Caitlyn's little misstep is barely a footnote here.

How long before the gang realizes that the only way to protect themselves is to smother him in his sleep?

Her "misstep" is the only reason Savitar wasn't released weeks ago.