Spoilers The Flash - Season 3

[Jax]

Jessie is like "Earth 3 needs a Flash, while Jay is trapped" BUT WHAT ABOUT EARTH 2

I did love the line about getting a bit slow in your "Golden age, Garrick" and overall I did like the episode though I have a few questions. Why didn't the piece of armour return to Savitar soon as Barry chopped it off if that's what it does? and since when can Barry use his logo as a weapon? like what the hell was that exactly. The camera angle they used for Jessie, stepping through the breach to Earth 3 made the show look like Stargate SG-1 for a second, I was like, that girl is going to end up on Chulak

I did enjoy the episode but like Flashpoint it seems like it would of been better served to do a 2 part story because it seemed like there is alot they could of done with the speed force. Also like the Flashpoint story being 1 episode, Wally being away for just 1 feels like it undercuts the ending of last week's episode.

PS - Stop with the fucking relationship BS, it's pathetic how writers come up with the most idiotic ways to keep characters apart from simply drag out that aspect of the story, am sick of it in all shows to be fair. Barry dumping her or whatever won't stop Savitar from trying to kill her because first the dude knows how much you love her and the pain it will cause and two, he already knows when/where he is going to do it.

The Runaway Dinosaur was the worst Flash episode, and completely irrelevant to both Barry and the ongoing story.

Anyway, I'm just going to skim this episode. I refuse to watch one second of Barry and the irrelevant wormhole aliens. Then I'll skip next week because the musical is pointless BS and won't matter to the show anyway. So, it looks like two weeks until a real Flash episode airs.

The Runaway Dinosaur was a big leap for Barry's personal story and was not irrelevant in the slighest. It's the resolution to the cliffhanger of Barry being vaporized into the time force, how was that not part of the ongoing story at the time?

You're going to skip parts of the season? do you do this with other shows? seems odd to miss out on parts of a show especially Flash which reminds me of Buffy in terms of having a overall arc played out bit n bit no matter how small per week and still doing standalone episodes at the same time...

Each their own I guess.

 

[Kirk Prime]

I'm a big fan of The Flash myself. I feel that one of the most underrated aspects of the show is how good of an actor Tom Cavanagh is. He's now created three completely different characters, and they all seem like different people. That's not easy to do.

I wish we could see more of Jay Garrick. What screwed me up last night is that I could have sworn Jay was the Flash of Earth 2, not Earth 3. Wasn't Zoom from Earth 2?

 

[Jax]

I wish we could see more of Jay Garrick. What screwed me up last night is that I could have sworn Jay was the Flash of Earth 2, not Earth 3. Wasn't Zoom from Earth 2?

Hunter Zolomon was from Earth 2 and Jay Garrick was from Earth 3. Hunter just kidnapped Jay and kept him prisoner on Earth 2 after defeating him and then pretended to be The Flash under the name Jay Garrick on Earth 2.

 

[Christopher]

Note especially how Jesse dropped a line about (already) having a lot of experience fighting monsters on her Earth. Sounds like a place that would still need its speedster. Or is Harry just so badass that he doesn't need her?

I do think the show underutilized Jesse, and glossed over the fact that she has at least half a year's more experience as a superhero than Wally does. I would've liked to see more of her in action.

Of course, I'm expecting a season finale where all the speedsters and allies we've seen this season -- the Earth-1 and Earth-3 Flashes, Kid Flash, Jesse Quick, the Accelerated Man we briefly glimpsed on Earth-19, Vibe, Gypsy, Killer Frost, maybe others -- all come together to beat Savitar. Of course, logically, Barry should just ask Supergirl to help, but I guess she'll be busy dealing with Cadmus and other problems.

Why didn't the piece of armour return to Savitar soon as Barry chopped it off if that's what it does?

Maybe it had to be in range? But then, why didn't Savitar just come to STAR Labs?

and since when can Barry use his logo as a weapon? like what the hell was that exactly.

That was unclear, but I figure it had something to do with the "tether" Cisco created. I'm a little surprised he didn't release the Black Flash into the breach room when he did that. Maybe the tether's energies and the BF's energies cancelled out somehow.

I'm a big fan of The Flash myself. I feel that one of the most underrated aspects of the show is how good of an actor Tom Cavanagh is. He's now created three completely different characters, and they all seem like different people. That's not easy to do.

Tatiana Maslany has done it brilliantly with several times that many characters on Orphan Black.

Honestly, when Harry came back a couple of weeks ago, for that episode where he was trying to convince Wally he was dying, I thought that Cavanagh was letting some of HR's mannerisms slip into his Harry performance. Like he was having trouble unlearning those performance habits after playing that version for a while.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I think Savatar is a future Jay Garrick that has spent a very long time in the speed force prison. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Being tortured for an eternity in the speed force could have warped Jay Garrick to turn him into Savatar. It explains the "I am the future flash" comment. It explains how Savatar knows Team Flash. It explains how Savatar says that he created himself. It explains Savatar's comment about Barry being there when he became Savatar. And it would explain Savatar's god complex.

 

[Christopher]

I think Savatar is a future Jay Garrick that has spent a very long time in the speed force prison. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Being tortured for an eternity in the speed force could have warped Jay Garrick to turn him into Savatar. It explains the "I am the future flash" comment. It explains how Savatar knows Team Flash. It explains how Savatar says that he created himself. It explains Savatar's comment about Barry being there when he became Savatar. And it would explain Savatar's god complex.

All that makes sense -- but I hope it isn't the case, because it would make this the second season in a row where the speedster Big Bad turned out to be a character going by the name Jay Garrick.

 

[Romulan_spy]

All that makes sense -- but I hope it isn't the case, because it would make this the second season in a row where the speedster Big Bad turned out to be a character going by the name Jay Garrick.

That is a good point. I am not saying that I want it to be true, just that the theory would make sense if true. And, considering how the writers have recycled similar plot points before, I would not put it pass them to try this.

 

[dahj]

I mean, what is the nature of the sentiences within the Speed Force? Are they former speedsters who've moved on, or what?

I think the Speedforce is supposed to be just one sentience, that chooses to talk through different faces.

In the comics they probably had long stretches with non speedester villians.

Sure the big bad is a speedster every season, but they generally do way more episodes dealing with non speedster villains over the course of the season. So it's not really that different from the comics...

I'm sorry, but they thought that he was a God?

Not God, Grodd.

But then, why didn't Savitar just come to STAR Labs?

Because he's already there, being all Birtish and unaware he's Savitar

 

[Kirk Prime]

Hunter Zolomon was from Earth 2 and Jay Garrick was from Earth 3. Hunter just kidnapped Jay and kept him prisoner on Earth 2 after defeating him and then pretended to be The Flash under the name Jay Garrick on Earth 2.

Ok, I definitely missed this. I even thought earlier this season, Barry went to Earth 2 because he wanted to talk to Jay, not Earth 3. It actually makes sense since Jay doesn't wear a mask.

Of course, I'm expecting a season finale where all the speedsters and allies we've seen this season -- the Earth-1 and Earth-3 Flashes, Kid Flash, Jesse Quick, the Accelerated Man we briefly glimpsed on Earth-19, Vibe, Gypsy, Killer Frost, maybe others -- all come together to beat Savitar. Of course, logically, Barry should just ask Supergirl to help, but I guess she'll be busy dealing with Cadmus and other problems.

If you really want to carry that out, Supergirl should ask Superman to help, and certainly introduce him to Barry.

Logically though, it should only be extreme circumstances where they go to other Earths to get help from their heroes.

I think Savatar is a future Jay Garrick that has spent a very long time in the speed force prison. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Being tortured for an eternity in the speed force could have warped Jay Garrick to turn him into Savatar. It explains the "I am the future flash" comment. It explains how Savatar knows Team Flash. It explains how Savatar says that he created himself. It explains Savatar's comment about Barry being there when he became Savatar. And it would explain Savatar's god complex.

Yeah, that's actually a pretty interesting theory--hadn't thought of it, and it makes some sense after last night. Though Barry didn't imprison Jay. Quite the opposite--Jay volunteered. Could years in there warp his sanity? Sure. Though given Jay is what I would consider an A list hero (the original Flash, predating Barry in the comics), I would hope that Jay retains some sort of role as uncorruptible and mentor.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Yeah, that's actually a pretty interesting theory--hadn't thought of it, and it makes some sense after last night. Though Barry didn't imprison Jay. Quite the opposite--Jay volunteered. Could years in there warp his sanity? Sure. Though given Jay is what I would consider an A list hero (the original Flash, predating Barry in the comics), I would hope that Jay retains some sort of role as uncorruptible and mentor.

Well, there is also a version of the theory where Barry does rescue Jay but not before the speed force prison has warped his mind to the point where Barry feels he has no choice but to imprison Jay back into the speed force and it is after that point that Jay becomes Savatar. That would account for Barry imprisoning Jay. This might be a better version of the theory. It might also better explain why Savatar hates Barry: the warped jay most likely would have disagreed that he needed to be put back in the speed force and definitely would not have wanted to go back after experiencing what it was like.

 

[Romulan_spy]

The emphasis on how Savatar is just a man under the armor and how the armor has a weak spot makes me think that the team will manage to remove the armor at some point and we will get the big reveal of who Savatar really is before the finale.

 

[Christopher]

I think the Speedforce is supposed to be just one sentience, that chooses to talk through different faces.

Which is still a weird interpretation of it. I mean, it's speed. It's supposed to be some kind of physical energy field associated with hyperfast motion. How did we get from that original concept to a sentient divinity that chooses whether to endow speedsters with their power? Sure, I can see how that works better dramatically -- you can't really write a conversation with a law of physics -- but it's still weirdly mystical.

 

[Dick Whitman]

All that makes sense -- but I hope it isn't the case, because it would make this the second season in a row where the speedster Big Bad turned out to be a character going by the name Jay Garrick.

Yeah, I had same thought but would hate it. Remember last seasonmany speculated that John Wesley Shipp would be revealed as playing whomever Zoom really was. I hope the writers where not inspired by those wrong speculations for this season.

At this point we know so little about Jay Garrick on the show. So much of the appeal is John Wesley Shipp himself. To turn Jay into a bait and switch villian reveal AGAIN would be a big mistake.

I am hopeful it's not happening. Jay completely volunteered to stay in the Speed Force. He was not forced to stay or imprisoned by Barry. Which is what we are being told about Savitar.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Jay completely volunteered to stay in the Speed Force. He was not forced to stay or imprisoned by Barry. Which is what we are being told about Savitar.

Unless, when Barry rescues him, he has already lost his mind and Barry is forced to put him back in the speed force prison. Then it would be true that Barry imprisoned him. But I do hope my theory is wrong. It just has an eerily plausible ring to it.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I thought the same thing watching last night. Not because I like it but because it would fit the pattern of the writers copying themselves. Last season when the team thought Jay had been killed by Zoom they had his helmet on display as a memorial before they learned the truth. Now again they have the same helmet on display because the real Jay is trapped in the Speed Force...

 

[Kirk Prime]

That's a theory too, but I think that would be terrible treatment for Jay, and would also waste the character for future seasons. Jay Garrick is a major DC hero, and I would hope the writers would do better by the character.

I'd like the reveal to be someone new.

 

[dahj]

Which is still a weird interpretation of it. I mean, it's speed.

It looks like the writers kinda combined Speed with the Force form Star Wars to get Speedforce.
(I have no idea how it is in the comics, never really read Flash that much.)

An alternative view could be that there isn't anything really mystical or sentient about it, but everything we're seeing is merely inside Barry's mind as a way his brain copes with processing all this extra-dimensional information.

The whole thing is sufficiently vague to work any which way and I hope they leave it at that and don't go all midichlorian on us with explanations, because ultimately it doesn't really matter what it is, it really only matters storywise as a way to externalise Barry's inner conflicts...

I'd like the reveal to be someone new.

It's never someone new

 

[Kirk Prime]

It's never someone new

I can sure hope! The more I think about it, the more predictable Savitar being Jay Garrick is, and I'm not really thrilled.

 

[Romulan_spy]

The other theory is that Savatar is Julian which I find equally uninspiring.

 

[dahj]

I can sure hope! The more I think about it, the more predictable Savitar being Jay Garrick is, and I'm not really thrilled.

Don't worry, it's not Jay.

It's Julian.