Iron Fist (Marvel/Netflix)
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The thing that struck me about the interview is that they use the logic that the costume comes from being a hero - so he can't have a costume as he isn't a hero yet. But, in the comics, the original costume is what he wears when he arrives from K'un L'un - and it seems that it would be easy to have some sort of vestige of the costume from the beginning in the same way that we had some sort of vestige of the Daredevil costume from the start.
Some fan's complete adherence to minutiae, particular stylings and costumes pretty-damned-hard-to-translate-to-screen-without-looking-goofy-as-fuck just galls me.
Characters characters characters, that's what these shows need to be. Filled with rounded people I want to invest my time on, so, should they then put on a ridiculous looking outfit I might just raise an eyebrow and say "allow it, bruv".
Scott Buck clearly wants to keep this in the grounded mold of the remainder of the shows and wants his character to earn his status and costume.
Sounds like a wise man to me. Not kneejerking over frivolties and flare collars.
Hugo - get the story and the characters right, then you earn the right to try the silly stuff
Characters characters characters, that's what these shows need to be. Filled with rounded people I want to invest my time on, so, should they then put on a ridiculous looking outfit I might just raise an eyebrow and say "allow it, bruv".
Scott Buck clearly wants to keep this in the grounded mold of the remainder of the shows and wants his character to earn his status and costume.
Sounds like a wise man to me. Not kneejerking over frivolties and flare collars.
Hugo - get the story and the characters right, then you earn the right to try the silly stuff
Matt: "What, am I the only one who dressed up...?"
There is a publicity photo showing him wearing green-and-yellow robes in what looks like a K'un Lun flashback scene. It's only vaguely similar, but it is a nod. And there may be others.
Anyway, he definitely has the dragon marking on his chest and the glowing fist. Surely those are the most essential parts of his look.
The only crap thing about Netflix is I never have enough discipline to not binge it all in a couple of days and stretch out the experience.
Netflix's Iron Fist won’t be wearing his costume (or even a mask) anytime soon
Well that's my interest gone.
I can understand the reasons why... but whatever. Are these shows all made by that guy who once told Kevin Smith how to do a Superman film?
Well, that's it then. I'm sick and tired of this early 2000s style of superhero product that the Netflix show is going for. Back when people were too embarrassed to use the comics as more then the very bare skeleton of the story. This is the MCU, the heroes wear costumes (when applicable). I hate how these Netflix shows work, they're so against the very spirit and premise of the MCU its pitiful. Even Zach Snyder at least acknowledges some of the source material in his work, and he turned Batman into a serial killer.
Hell even the original X-Men movie, while being allergic to good costumes and going with black leather instead, still embraced the source material more then the Netflix shows do. I bet the only reason Daredevil has a costume is because marketing people forced it on the people in charge of the show.
I'm done with this stuff. There is so much good superhero material getting made that this kind of crap, which reminds me of how the old Hulk show was run by a person who explicitly hated the comics, is no longer worthy of even a desperation watch. We now get enough superhero stuff that a superhero nerd can actually have standards and just ignore some junk, because something good is usually going to be just around the corner. At this point even the DCEU is superior to the Netflix shows, which is pathetic. To be fair, the Netflix show's disdain for the source material isn't the only reason its inferior to the DCEU (Daredevil and Punisher both brood more then Snyder's Superman does, and he basically did nothing in BvS but brood, among other annoying things), but its the final straw for me. I'm not going to watch Iron Fist, the Defenders, or anything else the Netflix assholes produce. But, hey, Marvel still has several potentially good superhero shows coming (Cloak & Dagger, Runaways, The Inhumans), so I won't be missing the Netflix shows.
Thanks for reinforcing your own caricature. I do hope the other Marvel shows offer you something that fits your preferred, rather focused viewpoint.
But, given Scott Buck (who adapted Iron Fist) is running Inhumans, and Joe Pokaski (who was a Co-Exec Producer on Daredevil) is scripting Cloak & Dagger, that leaves you with Runaways, being run by the creators of The OC and Gossip Girl... I fear things may not work out for you unless you are willing to open your mind a little.
Hugo - the eyes are useless when the mind is blind
But, given Scott Buck (who adapted Iron Fist) is running Inhumans, and Joe Pokaski (who was a Co-Exec Producer on Daredevil) is scripting Cloak & Dagger, that leaves you with Runaways, being run by the creators of The OC and Gossip Girl... I fear things may not work out for you unless you are willing to open your mind a little.
Hugo - the eyes are useless when the mind is blind
My big personal pipe dream is that these were all set in the 70s in the hey-day of afros and kung-fu. I think it would actually go quite well with the stories they're telling. Daredevil, Jessica Jones, the whole works would be awesome. And something like Iron Fist and the like would just fit right in. Punisher could be a Vietnam vet! For all the crossover with the MCU amounting to jack shit I think it could've brought something unique to the table.
The OC and Gossip Girl creators are almost certainly better choices for a superhero show then the other people. Also, my viewpoint is fairly unfocused. All a superhero show has to do is actually adapt the damn source material. More and more superhero shows are understanding that nowadays. Except for the terrible FOX shows (Gotham, Lucifer and Legion) and the Netflix shows, many superhero shows do fairly well with using the source material, even if they do chance some things around. Thinking about it, I guess the "many" is just the DC CW shows, but they are pretty good (and The Flash in particular is, in my opinion, the best live action superhero show ever made).
But, yeah, legitimate thanks for the info about the other shows. I'll now completely ignore Cloak & Dagger, and I'll still see Inhumans (I'm way too big a fan of the comic characters not to) but my expectations are now so low that if the Inhumans even have their super powers I'll be legitimately blown away.
Also, I don't have a "caricature", but whatever
Plus, I have 3-4 good superhero shows and many good superhero movies coming out, so Netflix producing crap isn't as big a deal as it would have been before the superhero boom. So, as a comic book fan, I'm doing pretty good (even if the loss of C&D and the probably low quality of Inhumans is an unexpected blow).I'd prefer modern day shows that aren't ashamed of the source material and actually fit with the MCU, but your idea at least has about 10,000x more personality then the Netflix shows have, so it would probably be an improvement.
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What can I say, I succumb to nostalgia with age. The Netflix shows do seem to carry on in the path blazed with Agents of SHIELD when it comes to adapting to the small screen. The DC shows take it to the other extreme and maybe a happy medium is in there somewhere. My problem with Iron Fist (judging a book by its cover) is that it looks like such a vanilla take on the property but I'm going to give it a fair shake.
I personally think that the DC CW shows have it just about perfect, with taking a lot of the source material and not being afraid of being based on comics. Its not perfect (The flash has a bad habit of wasting heroes names for "in name only" characters like their versions of "Dr. Light" and "Atiom Smasher"), but I love what they do. I don't think they're an extreme, they're the medium. the extreme would probably be adapting the source material with 100% accuracy, and even as a huge comic fan I know some changes need to be made to adapt things to different mediums.
I do agree about IF being vanilla. That's all the Netflix shows really are, vanilla drama's that use the names of Marvel characters for marketing value and maybe some basic plot points but little else. I mean, it kind of worked in Daredevil S1 and Luke Cage, but overall its an attitude I hate and one I'm glad the MCU in general rejects.
I do agree about IF being vanilla. That's all the Netflix shows really are, vanilla drama's that use the names of Marvel characters for marketing value and maybe some basic plot points but little else. I mean, it kind of worked in Daredevil S1 and Luke Cage, but overall its an attitude I hate and one I'm glad the MCU in general rejects.
From an artistic standpoint, I couldn't agree more, and I think Daredevil in particular actively suffers from not being set in the 70s. But period shows mean extensive costs in renting cars, re-dressing streets, finding and clothing style-appropriate extras, digital skyline fixes... and these shows can't even be bothered to CG Stark Tower into existence.
IGN's Jim Vejvoda is not impressed with the first six eps:
When a Marvel/Netflix show can't even wring much praise out of IGN, it's almost palpably not in great shape.
What ensues is basically a soap opera plot where bland, pretty, filthy rich people sneer and scheme over fortunes and family, complete with betrayals and characters seemingly back from the dead. The plight of an heir reclaiming his fortune and empire may be high enough stakes in a soap or a stodgy British costume drama, but in a show called Iron Fist this isn’t the most engaging way to spend time getting acquainted with the last Defender.
Iron Fist, exec produced by Dexter’s Scott Buck, is Marvel’s most generic Netflix series yet. So much of it feels familiar from many other recent superhero tales — Batman Begins, Doctor Strange, even a bit of Iron Man and Arrow — and the story the series has thus far offered in its first six episodes does little to shake up that well-worn formula.
[...] Indeed, while Finn Jones is perfectly serviceable as a corporate heir, he simply lacks the physical presence to make you believe Danny could kick anyone’s butt when his fist isn’t glowing. Jones seems too soft for a man who has supposedly endured the elements, combat training, and intense discipline since boyhood. What fights we do see all feel highly choreographed, more like dance sequences than superhero fisticuffs. You believe Daredevil could beat up a bunch of bad guys in a way that Danny Rand has yet to convince.
Iron Fist, exec produced by Dexter’s Scott Buck, is Marvel’s most generic Netflix series yet. So much of it feels familiar from many other recent superhero tales — Batman Begins, Doctor Strange, even a bit of Iron Man and Arrow — and the story the series has thus far offered in its first six episodes does little to shake up that well-worn formula.
[...] Indeed, while Finn Jones is perfectly serviceable as a corporate heir, he simply lacks the physical presence to make you believe Danny could kick anyone’s butt when his fist isn’t glowing. Jones seems too soft for a man who has supposedly endured the elements, combat training, and intense discipline since boyhood. What fights we do see all feel highly choreographed, more like dance sequences than superhero fisticuffs. You believe Daredevil could beat up a bunch of bad guys in a way that Danny Rand has yet to convince.
When a Marvel/Netflix show can't even wring much praise out of IGN, it's almost palpably not in great shape.
Well, they can't all be winners...
Hollywood Reporter slaughters the series too:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/marvels-iron-fist-review-984200
And yes, it sounds like they really did go down the White Saviour/Asiansplaining route despite their claims otherwise.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/marvels-iron-fist-review-984200
And yes, it sounds like they really did go down the White Saviour/Asiansplaining route despite their claims otherwise.
People will say things like "well maybe it gets better" or "it picks up a bit nearer the end." That's not good enough for me, six episodes is a long time for the (by the sound of it) to be dragged out and nothing happens. I'm not sitting through six hours of boring set up.
I know Netflix release these series all in one go, but I don't get why they can't make each episode more unique and stand out like a normal TV show would. You can do a serialised show and still maintain that, "oh that was the episode when that happened, that was the episode with so and so in it."
Serialised shows like Walking Dead s1, Banshee, Game of Thrones, Dexter, even Breaking Bad can still totally maintain that. Whereas I wouldn't have a clue which episode stuff happened off the top of my head for Daredevil 1&2, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage. I know they say it's so it feels like one long 13 hour movie. Which is fine when it's a great movie... but when it's a dragged out, slow and dull as hell movie, I've just got better things to do that sit through it.
I know Netflix release these series all in one go, but I don't get why they can't make each episode more unique and stand out like a normal TV show would. You can do a serialised show and still maintain that, "oh that was the episode when that happened, that was the episode with so and so in it."
Serialised shows like Walking Dead s1, Banshee, Game of Thrones, Dexter, even Breaking Bad can still totally maintain that. Whereas I wouldn't have a clue which episode stuff happened off the top of my head for Daredevil 1&2, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage. I know they say it's so it feels like one long 13 hour movie. Which is fine when it's a great movie... but when it's a dragged out, slow and dull as hell movie, I've just got better things to do that sit through it.
So is closeness to the source material your only criteria for whether or not a show is "good"? What about the quality of it's writing, acting, story, ect. Sure it's nice when an adaptation sticks close to the source material, but there's alot more to an show than that. You can have a good show, that is a bad adaptation of the source material. The Bixby/Ferigno Hulk is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, it had almost nothing to do with the source material, but it was still a good show.
Wow, that's got to be the first time Luke Cage has ever been described as vanilla.
Ok this is not looking good.
It's in large measure a corporate branding move. There's no technological reason Netflix couldn't release episodes one at a time like traditional TV channels (they've actually done it before), or make their drama episodes more distinctive the way each Master of None is basically its own short film a la Louie, but they go for the "one big continuous story" template to achieve a distinct identity. (I can't speak to other Netflix original dramas, but Bloodline certainly fits that template also, albeit far more successfully, IMO, especially with its shorter second season.) With its (mostly ignored) legal drama aspect, Daredevil in particular could benefit from telling more standalone stories.
On the "one season as one big movie" front, I wonder how Feige feels about Marvel's Netflix division doing its own Eastern mystic society plot so soon after Doctor Strange, and if it's a coincidence that the more important movie division got to release theirs first.
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