Agents of Shield - Season 4

[DarthPipes]

The episode was great last night. One of, if not the best episode they've had on.

 

[DrCorby]

Actually I don't think this is what Radcliffe intended. Remember, he wanted a paradise free of death and suffering. More specifically, when Aida brought him out in the beginning of this episode, he was disturbed to learn that Aida had restarted the simulation several times in order to adjust it to remove the captives' regrets. He was concerned that doing so would've altered the simulation in unpredictable ways. So I think that's probably what happened. In the course of undoing the team members' regrets, she accidentally undid the events that led to the downfall of Hydra.

Or maybe she thought they'd be happier if they joined Hydra and profited from the fruits of its victory? If Hydra won and ran the world, the oppressive order they brought would be free of conflict for those who got with the program, so to Aida's emotionless logic, that might've been a preferable way to live.

So Aida tried to emulate what Radcliffe had done for May, making Bahrain have a happy ending. But with a machine's emotionless logic, all those changes had unexpected consequences? Or work together in unexpected ways? Could be. I'll have to go back and watch it again.

 

[kirk55555]

I would watch them, personally I'm not the biggest fan of this arc but these episodes have some really wonderful character moments. But not if you plan to have a realy elaborate rant about them.

I wasn't planning on ranting about anything I'm just not enjoying the arc. Having now looked up spoilers for the last two episodes, I just would have gotten really irritated if I'd watched them, so I'll just jump back on at the next story arc.

 

[Greg Cox]

They said they found her Avatar, so I'm guessing she really isn't 'dead' in the Framework, but in that reality she faked her death..

Exactly. All we saw was a tombstone. Doesn't mean there's a body in the grave, or that it belongs to Gemma if there is.

Heck, David Banner had a tombstone in The Incredible Hulk tv series. Didn't mean Banner was dead.

My money's on the virtual version of Gemma having faked her death for some reason.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

My money's on the virtual version of Gemma having faked her death for some reason.

My first thought.

 

[Bruno]

Heck, David Banner had a tombstone in The Incredible Hulk tv series. Didn't mean Banner was dead.

Whoa whoa whoa!!! Spoiler alert??!! Some of us are a few episodes, or decades, behind in our tv watching.

 

[Greg Cox]

Whoa whoa whoa!!! Spoiler alert??!! Some of us are a few episodes, or decades, behind in our tv watching.

But . . . but it's in the opening credits!

 

[Beagleman]

I wasn't planning on ranting about anything

Just a friendly jab. Do as it suits you best!

 

[dahj]

But . . . but it's in the opening credits!

Oh great, now you also ruined when it appears...

 

[RJDiogenes]

Yeah, that was a pretty wild episode. A very tense scene between Simmons and RoboFitz, and she actually put him out of commission. Daisy had to go through a brutal ten-minute acrobatic battle with RoboMace before getting the better of him and Simmons takes out RoboFitz in about thirty seconds. Although I don't know why Daisy didn't just liquefy RoboMace like she did with RoboMack.

That was a nice escape from the base with a handful of Junior SHIELD Woodchucks as RoboMay sacrificed herself to save them-- I wonder if that's the end of the base. That was a pretty big explosion.

I also had to wonder about the army of Daisys in their underwear. Apparently either Radcliffe or Aida has a thing for her. Can't say I blame them.

Too bad about Radcliffe. He was a great character. And Aida seems to have a vicious streak. There was really no need for her to slash his wrists like that and let him bleed out, dying in pain and terror-- she could have just forced him back into the Framework and let him die of starvation, or even asphyxiated him. And then there was her treatment of the Russian-- "Soon you will be many things."

This next arc looks like it will be very interesting, almost like a Mirror Universe scenario. Some of it doesn't make sense, at least not yet, if it's supposed to be just like the real world, only with less pain. Why would May be with HYDRA? Why would there even be a HYDRA? And why would Simmons be dead? How is that less painful for anybody? And who is Fitz paired up with? Mack makes sense-- his daughter is alive and he's still with his wife-- and Coulson makes sense-- he's tired of the spy life (I wonder if Amy Acker will be back as part of his virtual reality). And then there's Daisy. It's kind of funny, I was thinking that the LMD arc would be the perfect opportunity to bring back Ward, but I never thought of him showing up in the Framework. If the show gets renewed, I wonder if they will bring him back as RoboWard.

And Gemma really does spell her name Jemma.

 

[Reverend]

Exactly. All we saw was a tombstone. Doesn't mean there's a body in the grave, or that it belongs to Gemma if there is.

Heck, David Banner had a tombstone in The Incredible Hulk tv series. Didn't mean Banner was dead.

My money's on the virtual version of Gemma having faked her death for some reason.

So you're saying Simmons is now She-Hulk? I think I'm down with that.

Seriously though, doesn't Nick Fury and Frank Castle also still have gravestones? Probably Carl Lucas too.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Fake Jemma faking her death just seems so ordinary for a fake world...I think they're going someplace else with that.

I also had to wonder about the army of Daisys in their underwear.

I think they were for personally luring in all of the Inhumans. Daisy had been questioning the logistics of going to collect each one personally. Presumably they'd put clothes on first.

Some of it doesn't make sense, at least not yet, if it's supposed to be just like the real world, only with less pain. Why would May be with HYDRA? Why would there even be a HYDRA? And why would Simmons be dead? How is that less painful for anybody?

It's about taking away specific painful moments from specific individuals. I think this is going to be the Pottersville scenario of unintended consequences on the world when you do that.

One thing that interests me is that everybody seems on board with the possibility of the next (and likely last) multi-episode arc focusing on the framework reality. Over in the Flash thread, there were strong opinions that the show couldn't sustain an arc in the Flashpoint alternate timeline.

 

[Forbin]

I wasn't planning on ranting about anything I'm just not enjoying the arc. Having now looked up spoilers for the last two episodes, I just would have gotten really irritated if I'd watched them, so I'll just jump back on at the next story arc.

But the thing is, the show is not just that - it's also enjoying wonderful moments between characters, fun lines of dialog, harrowing moments for characters (Jemma was amazing this week!), moments of awesomeness (Daisy's bilateral quake ball attack), etc, etc. I absolutely understand not liking the way the story is going, but I'd hate to miss those moments.

 

[Christopher]

One thing that interests me is that everybody seems on board with the possibility of the next (and likely last) multi-episode arc focusing on the framework reality. Over in the Flash thread, there were strong opinions that the show couldn't sustain an arc in the Flashpoint alternate timeline.

That's different for a few reasons. One, the Flashpoint storyline in the comics and the animated movie was mostly about the larger DC Universe being changed -- Thomas Wayne being Batman, Atlantis and Themyscira waging a devastating war led by Aquaman and Wonder Woman, etc. Strip it down just to the Flash-specific stuff and there really isn't more than one episode's worth of story there; it's just the routine "Oops, fixing the past broke the present, better unfix it" plot we've seen a hundred times. In this case on AoS, it's not an adaptation of an existing story, but something new, so there's no way to tell where it could go.

Two, The Flash was part of a larger continuity with two other simultaneously running shows that had to remain consistent with their own internal realities (for the most part), so that would've made it problematical to do an ongoing altered-reality narrative in just one show. In this case, the alternate reality is virtual, so there's no need to worry about how it affects the rest of the MCU.

And I just realized there's a third reason: In "Flashpoint," aside from the Flash himself, none of the characters were really the people we know, just their alternate versions. So it might've been harder to get invested in them, and any growth they went through would've been negated at the end when the original versions of the characters were restored. Seeing the Flash characters we know (or at least only very slightly altered versions of them) dealing with the aftereffects of the imperfect restoration has actually been more interesting than "Flashpoint" itself was, because we have more investment in all the characters, not just Barry. But on AoS, all six of the series leads are now plugged into the Framework. The lives they're experiencing are altered, but that's just the illusion they're being fed; underneath, it's still the Coulson, May, FitzSimmons, Daisy, and Mack that we know and love, and the story will be about all of them trying to get back to their lives. So what happens to them will matter more to us.

 

[Reverend]

Fake Jemma faking her death just seems so ordinary for a fake world...I think they're going someplace else with that.

Well if they're really going for the mirror universe approach as the epilogue made it seem, then the logical conclusion given Fitz is some powerful corporate or government figure (and especially after what Daisy said about them in this episode) is that Simmons is almost certainly working directly against him. I'm guessing she's Nick Fury's successor or something, eye-patch and all!

Out of interest I note that they made a point to obscure the year of her "death" but not the day. I doubt this will play into it but just for giggles I had a quick look at the timeline on the MCU wiki and it seems the only AoS episode that seems to fall directly on that date is 'The Well' from season one. For those that don't recall, that was the one that picked up the day after 'Thor 2'.

 

[FPAlpha]

This next arc looks like it will be very interesting, almost like a Mirror Universe scenario. Some of it doesn't make sense, at least not yet, if it's supposed to be just like the real world, only with less pain. Why would May be with HYDRA? Why would there even be a HYDRA?

I guess with May it's that she needs action and enemies as part of her character.. she needs to be able to fight someone and only then is she happy. May is not the person for cocktails and sunny beaches, she's the person for stealth missions and kicking some redshirts around.

So it would make sense to create a world full of enemies, where every misstep could be deadly.. it's an environment where May thrives in.

The one thing that interests me is if they all share one Framework or if they inhabit the same one just with different stories (teacher Coulson just doesn't care if it's Hydra or Shield "protecting" the world for example).

 

[Beagleman]

The one thing that interests me is if they all share one Framework or if they inhabit the same one just with different stories (teacher Coulson just doesn't care if it's Hydra or Shield "protecting" the world for example).

I'm sure that's the case otherwise the story would become realy fragmented, and we wan't our characters to interact. I think this will play out like the last season of Lost, Daisy and Jemma convince the others one by one that this world is fake.

 

[UssGlenn]

This next arc looks like it will be very interesting, almost like a Mirror Universe scenario. Some of it doesn't make sense, at least not yet, if it's supposed to be just like the real world, only with less pain. Why would May be with HYDRA? Why would there even be a HYDRA?

It's about taking away specific painful moments from specific individuals. I think this is going to be the Pottersville scenario of unintended consequences on the world when you do that.

Aida said she had to restart the simulation to make the changes, so Coulson deciding not to join SHIELD was probably first, Repairing Fitz's relationship with his father was probably around that time. May would probably have to relive saving the little girl again, but in a timeline where she never knew Coulson. No Coulson in SHIELD means no Avengers which means Hydra wins.

 

[kitik]

If the show gets renewed, I wonder if they will bring him back as RoboWard.

Ward was never brainscanned though, so it really wouldn't be him, just other's perceptions of him. There'd be no point in having a robo-Ward in the real world.

Though now that I think about it, this season is about the Darkhold, isn't it? And I'll bet that book can tell you how to raise someone from the dead. Hmm, that would actually be a realistic way to bring him back.

But on AoS, all six of the series leads are now plugged into the Framework.

All 6, plus Radcliff, AND the woman that Aida was based on. She could play a part in this yet. Either to tell Radcliff to do what's right or maybe she's the woman hanging with Fitz.

And speaking of Fitzsimmons, lots of folks are talking about how she could be a bit traumitized after stabbing him, but I'm thinking it might be worse if she finds that he's genuinely happy with someone else in the Framework. I'm getting my guard up for a sad ending.

 

[The Old Mixer]

And I just realized there's a third reason: In "Flashpoint," aside from the Flash himself, none of the characters were really the people we know, just their alternate versions. So it might've been harder to get invested in them, and any growth they went through would've been negated at the end when the original versions of the characters were restored. Seeing the Flash characters we know (or at least only very slightly altered versions of them) dealing with the aftereffects of the imperfect restoration has actually been more interesting than "Flashpoint" itself was, because we have more investment in all the characters, not just Barry. But on AoS, all six of the series leads are now plugged into the Framework. The lives they're experiencing are altered, but that's just the illusion they're being fed; underneath, it's still the Coulson, May, FitzSimmons, Daisy, and Mack that we know and love, and the story will be about all of them trying to get back to their lives. So what happens to them will matter more to us.

This is pretty much the thing that popped in my mind with a bit of thought.