^ Which explains a lot. 
Opinions on Michael Eddington
- Thread starter Emperor Norton
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wtf is glory anyway. Lots of people admire you? Sounds like an unhealthy need.
You shalt love me teacake!
And despair.
And err...isn't the concept of reading Nietzsche for the purposes of amassing glory (recognised worth,) basically tripping right out of the gate? An Übermensch wouldn't give a fuck whether others 'glorify' them. It's sort of the entire point!
And despair.
And err...isn't the concept of reading Nietzsche for the purposes of amassing glory (recognised worth,) basically tripping right out of the gate? An Übermensch wouldn't give a fuck whether others 'glorify' them. It's sort of the entire point!
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Apaz, Klingons.
Sort of a pseudo-Nietzcheanism yes. A true Übermensch wouldn't care and would do as he pleased his chains cast down. Most glory seekers to their detriment(Dukat) still need some sort of acknowledgement or hailing.
They seek power, historical impact, among other things yet can't give the need for affection completely. That's their downfall.
A true Übermensch would do as they desired without self-justification or remorse or any sort of slave emotion. So a Trek Example would be Khan Noonien Singh(closest I could think of). He does what he does cause he can.
How ironic that those who subscribe to the notion of the Uebermensch show little of the self-confidence that Nietzsche ascribed to them, and they seem for more concerned over matters of morality than Netzsche believed they would be. They tend to pontificate more than do.
Oh, I know that one. It's like pseudo-Objectivism.
Aka 'Not an actual philosophy at all, just people trying to make their self-justifications look more legit. '
No he doesn't.
Khan wants people to love and follow him. Other people being unimpressed with him is his berserk button, and affects his sense of purpose.
And that's before the good old fashioned insanity kicks in. And he rationalises that revenge as being at least partially motivated with obtaining 'justice' for his dead wife. Personal revenge fits an Übermensch, appealing to some sort-of sense of greater justice and fairness doesn't .
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Well as close as Trekkian example as possible.
Glory seeking is a fundamental human trait, not something anyone has a right to but still immensely alluring.
Eddington genuinely believes in the cause and he genuinely wants glory. His priorities aren't straight and that's what Sisko takes advantage of. His need for affirmation is his downfall, much the same as Dukat needed affirmation.
Glory seeking is a fundamental human trait, not something anyone has a right to but still immensely alluring.
Eddington genuinely believes in the cause and he genuinely wants glory. His priorities aren't straight and that's what Sisko takes advantage of. His need for affirmation is his downfall, much the same as Dukat needed affirmation.
Personally I'm not convinced that Eddington does believe in the cause, at least not in his later appearances. Oh, he's great at walking the walk and talking the talk, but in politics, just because you walk like a duck and talk like a duck doesn't mean you're a duck.
Hell, he might even think he still believes in the cause, but the actions he takes, subsuming the Maquis to his ego (or whatever) betray that notion.
Hell, he might even think he still believes in the cause, but the actions he takes, subsuming the Maquis to his ego (or whatever) betray that notion.
He said and I quote "The maquis colonies were going to declare independence under my leadership." If he was willing to take the reigns a mere security officer to lead the new Maquis state as an interstellar government after defeating the Cardassians of course then to me there is doubt he truly believed in the cause.
Yes it was, that's such a ridiculous non sequitur.
The Maquis apparently before "For the Uniform" had driven back the Cardassians, had them on the run, the government was tottering Maquis morale up, the federation reeling.
Eddington acquired the weaponry needed to kill/displace Cardassian settlers and was using to great effect before Sisko decided to intervene on a personal vendetta.
I imagine if the Maquis broke enough Cardassian armies and drove them from their colonies, factional infighting and coups would probably have overtaken the Cardassian government. Giving the Maquis the much needed breathing space to declare Independence and tell the Feds to sod off.
Wow, that was a bit hyperbolic.
Not a non-sequitur at all. My point was that I don't consider Eddington to be a reliable source, especially not when talking directly with Sisko and there's nobody around to contradict him.
The Federation was "reeling"? I doubt the majority of the Federation gave a damn about the Maquis situation, and if Starfleet had wanted to, they could have sent in a fleet and wiped out the Maquis without breaking a sweat. They chose not to, much as they chose not to go to war with Cardassia over a relative handful of settlements.
The Cardassian unrest existed before the Maquis ever came along, though I'll grant they were a contributing factor. You're giving them far too much credit.
Eddington wiped out a whopping, what, one planet, maybe two? With surprise on his side. Do you really think Starfleet would have sat back and simply let Eddington wipe out the other Cardassian settlements?
The Maquis existed in part because Starfleet allowed them to.
Not a non-sequitur at all. My point was that I don't consider Eddington to be a reliable source, especially not when talking directly with Sisko and there's nobody around to contradict him.
The Federation was "reeling"? I doubt the majority of the Federation gave a damn about the Maquis situation, and if Starfleet had wanted to, they could have sent in a fleet and wiped out the Maquis without breaking a sweat. They chose not to, much as they chose not to go to war with Cardassia over a relative handful of settlements.
The Cardassian unrest existed before the Maquis ever came along, though I'll grant they were a contributing factor. You're giving them far too much credit.
Eddington wiped out a whopping, what, one planet, maybe two? With surprise on his side. Do you really think Starfleet would have sat back and simply let Eddington wipe out the other Cardassian settlements?
The Maquis existed in part because Starfleet allowed them to.
The Maquis did not almost wipe out the Cardassian army. They were giving trouble to the local vigilantes that were (without the blessing of the Cardassian high command) harrassing them. Further successes would not have resulting in the Maquis planting a flag on the Cardassian home world, they would have resulted in Cardassia sending in a fleet and wiping them out.
There are paths to glory other than military victory.
There are paths to glory other than military victory.
Quite correct. The Cardassian's are well into decline by the time their engagement with DS9 begins. Their society has become one where permanently the military was the leadership of their society. That can work for awhile but as soon as your generals become your only political figures you've started the path of decline. In the past few years:
They'd lost the Federation - Cardassian War (Despite some slaughters of civilians see Setlik 3)
They'd been driven off Bajor by the Bajorian Resistence
Even during the show they got overwhelmed by the Klingons in relatively short order even despite some advanced warning
The Maquis had temporarily disabled the Defiant and Starfleet apparently gave Sisko a blank cheque to pursue him. Combine that evidence with Dax's statement then I suspect the Maquis had momentum on their side. Sort of like ISIS in June 2014 to use a recent example.
I never said the Maquis were the only cause of Cardassia's troubles, apparently their society was very unstable and tottering already. With what 2 or 3 coups? The obsidian order being destroyed and before
that getting away with its own military. That's like the CIA having its own airforce and navy. And the Pentagon calling foul and the CIA officer walking out laughing which is exactly what happens in "Defiant."
And combine that with being roundly beaten by the Klingons despite limited Federation support.
Also I recall Martok said something about the Klingons backing the Maquis by proxy so that further explains the Maquis's confidence and strength.
Given that perfect storm I believe the maquis had a genuine fighting chance.
As for Eddington's honesty? Why would he be dishonest? Sisko had dragged him out of prison, made him pilot the ship, and so on. Eddington wouldn't have any incentive to lie to Sisko. Not at that point in "Blaze of Glory."
I sympathize with the character and think Marshall did a good job with the portrayal.
But I'm also sympathetic to the Maquis IU(or I would be).
I never said the Maquis were the only cause of Cardassia's troubles, apparently their society was very unstable and tottering already. With what 2 or 3 coups? The obsidian order being destroyed and before
that getting away with its own military. That's like the CIA having its own airforce and navy. And the Pentagon calling foul and the CIA officer walking out laughing which is exactly what happens in "Defiant."
And combine that with being roundly beaten by the Klingons despite limited Federation support.
Also I recall Martok said something about the Klingons backing the Maquis by proxy so that further explains the Maquis's confidence and strength.
Given that perfect storm I believe the maquis had a genuine fighting chance.
As for Eddington's honesty? Why would he be dishonest? Sisko had dragged him out of prison, made him pilot the ship, and so on. Eddington wouldn't have any incentive to lie to Sisko. Not at that point in "Blaze of Glory."
I sympathize with the character and think Marshall did a good job with the portrayal.
But I'm also sympathetic to the Maquis IU(or I would be).
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With this Eddington changed the Maquis from fighting for their homes to an expanionist rogue group. The Federation gets slammed for wanting to relocate those in the DMZ, but Eddington is forcing the relocation of whole civilian population under the threat of death. Eddington perverted the cause and made them no better than the Cardassians he so "hated".
Make me wonder if in the post-Dominion War era if the Federation does take the DMZ (I'd assume they would) that if they wouldn't find examples of atrocities commited under the guidance of Eddington.
Such folks were not breast fed as babies....
No, he said, "The Maquis colonies were going to declare themselves an independent nation." There is no indication that he was the unique leader driving this action, or that he was more than a general. Please get it right.
I may be mistaken, I do think he was more than a general, he also says and I'm paraphrasing that he was in prison when the Maquis needed him most(i.e. Dominion-Cardassian alliance).
He also says "The Maquis had their greatest victories under my leadership."
Leadership now if he was just another general or what not wouldn't you think he would say something different. I dunno "I led the Maquis in their finest victories." Or "I was the best leader." Or something implying he wasn't in charge necessarily.
