I actually like Masks quite a bit. Part of it may be nostalgia from liking it as a kid but also I thought it was cool how the ships interior changed. I think they did a good job with what they had there - plus Brent Spiner's different voices didn't make me cringe like Mark Twain in Time's Arrow did.
Actually... I quite like that episode.
- Thread starter retroenzo
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But if they had done that, then how would they have done all of the great character development that came from the various crewpeople being affected by the experience of turning into the things they turned into?
Oh, wait, what? TNG never did that, just hit the big reset button? Oh, well. Carry on, then.
At my age, any Trek is watchable Trek. Even the earlier seasons of Voyager. I have not sat and watched DS9 in a while; that would be worthy of a revisit.
Though "Spocks Brain" is still a cheese-fest. I howled when the alien ship (pre-remastered) turned out to be a left-over model from a pilot episode of "Lost in Space".
Though "Spocks Brain" is still a cheese-fest. I howled when the alien ship (pre-remastered) turned out to be a left-over model from a pilot episode of "Lost in Space".
Remember the Spock remote control from that episode? In other episodes you see Spock using it for various purposes and I've always wondered if Spock could use it to remote pilot himself after that episode.
If we're allowed to bring up the films in this thread; I've always loved TFF. Watching our pirated copy on VHS was my first experience with Trek and I fell in love with it from there. As maligned as it is, it was my first. It has all the basic trappings of a good episode too; The big three, an alien guest star, Klingons, & an evil alien of the week pretending to be God. From there I discovered TOS reruns on one of our local TV networks and never looked back. Years later I would discover Star Wars and develop an appreciation for both properties.
Over the years one of the thing that has annoyed me even more about TFF is that for all that it is supposed to be a "Shatner-fest", it is the film that tried hardest to recapture the character dynamics of Star Trek. It's really the only film that has Kirk, Spock, and McCoy almost always working together (rather than Kirk and McCoy, with Spock doing Spock things, or just Kirk and Spock). It not only gives Uhura, Sulu, and Chekov something to do(!) but it implies that that they're all amazing at their jobs.
Pity it's such a terrible film.
Sybok informs Kirk that he (Sybok) does not control minds, he frees them. So, Uhura, Sulu and Chekov have committed mutiny, of their own, Free Will. This is in the movie, I'm not making this up. I could go on and on with this kind of stuff. I don't see how TFF served any of the characters, other than to make them all look like retards.
Well, Sybok isn't really a reliable narrator. But Scotty looks like a twit.
Yeah, Sybok "freeing" minds is B.S. He was mind controlling them. Brain washing them to serve his own ends. It was easiest on the Nimbus III crowd, but the E-A crew fell to his powers too. It strains credibility that he was able to so effect hundreds of Enterprise crew, but then, maybe he didn't, just enough to get his job done. Seems he didn't quite get everyone, given that at least Scotty was not a Sybok disciple. Or perhaps the E was flying with a skeleton crew on board due to how rushed it all was.
But Uhura and Sulu and Chekov were all victims of Sybok, not mutinous dogs. Even McCoy nearly fell for it, but the spell was broken when Spock and Kirk were unmoved by Sybok's Jedi Mind Tricks.
Yeah, for all it's flaws, I still (and always will) love TFF. This movie came out when I was 9 and it was my favorite movie for much of my youth. I will always remember it fondly. And as an adult, I still say that of all the movies, it's the one that felt the most like a TOS episode, using the characters in a TOS way and touching on TOS themes. It's great and I won't be talked into a different opinion.
--Alex
But Uhura and Sulu and Chekov were all victims of Sybok, not mutinous dogs. Even McCoy nearly fell for it, but the spell was broken when Spock and Kirk were unmoved by Sybok's Jedi Mind Tricks.
Yeah, for all it's flaws, I still (and always will) love TFF. This movie came out when I was 9 and it was my favorite movie for much of my youth. I will always remember it fondly. And as an adult, I still say that of all the movies, it's the one that felt the most like a TOS episode, using the characters in a TOS way and touching on TOS themes. It's great and I won't be talked into a different opinion.
--Alex
The Final Frontier does wonders as a Valentine to Captain Kirk. And on that level, it's wildly successful. I continue to be shocked and appalled, however, by the fact that William Shatner, who's so reknown for his over-the-topness could've delivered such lameness to the paying public. But that's alright.
After The Search for Spock, the next three STAR TREK movies were shite. Yes, I know The Voyage Home made money, but really ... STAR TREK saves the whales? It was pretty tame stuff. And The Undiscovered Country ... look,. I admire Shakespeare's works, myself, but the overuse of it did not elevate this movie. Besides which, Spock didn't come out of this film smelling of the roses, if you know what I mean. So, TFF was just the middle turd in a turd sandwich, when you think about it that way ...
After The Search for Spock, the next three STAR TREK movies were shite. Yes, I know The Voyage Home made money, but really ... STAR TREK saves the whales? It was pretty tame stuff. And The Undiscovered Country ... look,. I admire Shakespeare's works, myself, but the overuse of it did not elevate this movie. Besides which, Spock didn't come out of this film smelling of the roses, if you know what I mean. So, TFF was just the middle turd in a turd sandwich, when you think about it that way ...
Sybok himself might even sincerely believe so. Doesn't automatically make it the truth, though.
Sybok isn't a cynic, he's sincere. Where the self delusion ends and this "god" alien's influence begins is another question.
I interpret what Sybok does as a kind of advanced mind meld of sorts. He does brighten certain dark corners buried within and that's like a rush of fresh air but a side-effect is that one is inflected with an enthusiasm and a suggestibility for this "ultimate mission" of his. In a similiar way that Sarek in the TNG episode Sarek has various side-effects from his telepathic problems.
I interpret what Sybok does as a kind of advanced mind meld of sorts. He does brighten certain dark corners buried within and that's like a rush of fresh air but a side-effect is that one is inflected with an enthusiasm and a suggestibility for this "ultimate mission" of his. In a similiar way that Sarek in the TNG episode Sarek has various side-effects from his telepathic problems.
All of this speculation is interesting, but what it all comes down to is that this film doesn't bring emphasis to the 2nd bananas as earlier claimed ... it reduces them to traitorous, glorified extras. Chekov's chair turning delay tactics on Sybok's monitor, not withstanding.
As well, the natural beauty of El Cap is showcased in all of its glory and yet ... the defacement of the Black Hills of South Dakota as Mt. Rushmore is used to make some kind of half-assed 'statement,' in a deleted scene. Just goes to show how far The Shat has his head up his ass ...
As well, the natural beauty of El Cap is showcased in all of its glory and yet ... the defacement of the Black Hills of South Dakota as Mt. Rushmore is used to make some kind of half-assed 'statement,' in a deleted scene. Just goes to show how far The Shat has his head up his ass ...
Far be it from me to be the one to rise to TFF's defense, but whether or not Sybok considered his technique "mind control", I think that the clear intent was that it was "mind-altering". The crew weren't just being mutinous, they were "under the influence".
Haha ... I wonder what The Captain's Log of the Sybok Incident read like!
I tend to like a lot of Trek that others find sub par
TOS:
Omega Glory
Savage Curtain
Mark of Gideon
Spock's Brain
TNG:
We'll Always Have Paris
Encounter at Farpoint
Naked Now
The Royale (one of my all-time favorites)
Masks
Contagion
Movies:
TMP
TSFS (I NEVER understood the hate for this one)
TFF (one of my absolute favorites)
Nemesis (favorite of the sub par TNG films)
TOS:
Omega Glory
Savage Curtain
Mark of Gideon
Spock's Brain
TNG:
We'll Always Have Paris
Encounter at Farpoint
Naked Now
The Royale (one of my all-time favorites)
Masks
Contagion
Movies:
TMP
TSFS (I NEVER understood the hate for this one)
TFF (one of my absolute favorites)
Nemesis (favorite of the sub par TNG films)
Styles seem to come and go as far as what's liked or hated.
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The movies are generally bad. TFF had a few more interesting moments than a lot of them. The first couple minutes make it look like a good movie's coming. TFF is at least less bad than IV.
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The movies are generally bad. TFF had a few more interesting moments than a lot of them. The first couple minutes make it look like a good movie's coming. TFF is at least less bad than IV.
I love Power Play too and really? It's now unpopular? I'm surprised.
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