Have you WATCHED the last 13 Star Trek films? I ask because what you describe can be applied to EVERY ONE of them.
Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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C'mon, Man! You don't think that a machine planet would find a crashed probe with the processing power of a calculator a "kindred spirit"?!?
This entire exchange between Decker and Spock is ridiculous:
SPOCK: The machine inhabiters found it to be one of their own kind, primitive yet kindred. They discovered its simple twentieth-century programming. Collect all data possible.
DECKER: Learn all that is learnable. Return that information to its Creator.
SPOCK (OC): Precisely, Mister Decker, the machines interpreted it literally.
SPOCK: They built this entire vessel so that Voyager could fulfil it's programming.
^^^
Because in the 20th century (and still here in the 21st) - Computer programming DOESN'T WORK that way. You program each probe instrument with VERY SPECIFIC instructions. Also the Probe itself has NO WAY to analyze the data it's sending. It's sending it back to Earth so it CAN be analyzed.
This entire exchange between Decker and Spock is ridiculous:
SPOCK: The machine inhabiters found it to be one of their own kind, primitive yet kindred. They discovered its simple twentieth-century programming. Collect all data possible.
DECKER: Learn all that is learnable. Return that information to its Creator.
SPOCK (OC): Precisely, Mister Decker, the machines interpreted it literally.
SPOCK: They built this entire vessel so that Voyager could fulfil it's programming.
^^^
Because in the 20th century (and still here in the 21st) - Computer programming DOESN'T WORK that way. You program each probe instrument with VERY SPECIFIC instructions. Also the Probe itself has NO WAY to analyze the data it's sending. It's sending it back to Earth so it CAN be analyzed.
Yet, it is still a very good movie in my opinion (my favorite Trek movie). The actors do a great job selling what is essentially gibberish. Star Trek has always hinged on the ability of the actors to sell it.
Exactly. It's investment in the characters and their situation that make the series and films so enjoyable. There is a great example in TNG's "Booby Trap" where all Levar Burton is doing is touching panels and spouting technobable. And yet, the scene works because Burton sounds like a professional trying to do his job and confused by it not working.
Same thing with just about every film. I'm always amused by the fact that Abrams Trek gets taken to task over things that Prime Trek did.
Welcome to Star Trek.
TMP's problem was in the editing, not the actors or even the story. 2001 A Space Odyssey had an intermission for gods sake. TMP was too slow and long...
I love TMP. I love how deliberate the pacing is. They take their time to get where they're going.
My only comment on that is simply the fact that V'Ger was in a direct threat to Earth and was only two days away, if I recall correctly. It decreases the tension somewhat in the pacing, in my opinion.
I went with B+, but it falls into a range of B+ to B for me.
I only read the first few pages of this now sixty page thread, so if I'm repeating, sorry.
Positives
This was a better movie than both 2009 and Into Darkness combined.
The character bits are really entertaining. I think Urban and Quinto are really getting good at the McCoy/Spock banter. The characters had also grown. They went from being horny teenagers in the first movie to being rounded out, but still somewhat flawed adults in this movie. It made the script slightly better than an average popcorn flick.
The Sulu is gay scene was so simple and what it needed to be. I heard a scoff from a woman behind me about it, but really, it's 2016. I also disagree with George Takei when he thinks it should have been a new character and not a standing one. You are emotionally invested in these characters and it allows you to accept his sexuality naturally instead of forcing a character in and having it being called "political correctness" in anti-LGBT circles.
The destruction of the Enterprise. I am not marveling about special effects here. I really didn't like how this ship looking from the brewery engine room to the giant middle of the ship with the long crosswalk or the stark white walls. I am hoping the new Enterprise will have a better internal design, though I am not hopefully with how NCC-1701-A was plastered in size 100 font on the belly of the saucer at the end.
Idris Elba acted the hell out of a cardboard villain. His scenes as Edison going mad in the log and during the fight with Kirk showed what he could've done with better writing for his character.
Middle Ground
I didn't hate Jaylah, but I was disappointed to see her shuttled off to Starfleet Academy. She worked for me as a rogue, someone who wanted to find her place in the universe. She still could've been brought back, but it didn't shoehorn her into wearing a Starfleet uniform.
Negatives
In the posts I did read, there was a lot of questioning of Krall's motives and I'm right there too. I would have preferred in the final log entry had said something to the effect of their distress calls not being answered, being abandoned, more of a descent into madness instead of "I'm a soldier and the Federation is weak." These people could have been pushed to their boundaries, perhaps watching their friends and colleagues die one by one, and snapped and possibly made to be more sympathetic villains. His killing of the crew members to sustain himself was written to be evil, when a line or two could have shown some pain in having to do it, a man tortured by demons.
Am I the only one who didn't get that Manas and the Lydia Wilson character were part of the Franklin crew? I don't know if I missed it, but it just seems sort of glossed over. I assumed they were some aliens that had crashed that he had co-opted into being part of his plans.
I wasn't a big fan of how this movie was shot. I can't stand the frenetic, frenzied movements and in some places, it was dark for no reason and made it more difficult to see. I find myself praying for a locked off camera shot once in a while. I found that 3D did not really add to the movie for me like it did in "The Martian." Some of the special effects, mainly Jaylah's "goo" was so horrible it was funny and left me thinking: "This was the best they could think of?" This was better than JJ's lensflares however.
I know the Federation is made of many alien species, but some of the alien crew were some of the worst CGI and makeup we've had. It was almost like: we're a science fiction show and we need to make the aliens look as alien as possible. One great example was the Ensign hiding the piece in the back of her head. She couldn't have had it on her person or known what shuttle it was in, but instead, it was let's be super alien and have her head open up and it looked silly. Some others that also spring to mind are the fish alien in the final scene and the one with a big head and what looked like a blue tattoo in the middle.
They really need to cut that Keenser creature. I don't get his redeeming qualities and at the end, it looked like they paired him with a smaller creature as a sidekick. Hell, Vin Diesel made the same three words more entertaining and sympathetic in one movie than this character has in three.
I only read the first few pages of this now sixty page thread, so if I'm repeating, sorry.
Positives
This was a better movie than both 2009 and Into Darkness combined.
The character bits are really entertaining. I think Urban and Quinto are really getting good at the McCoy/Spock banter. The characters had also grown. They went from being horny teenagers in the first movie to being rounded out, but still somewhat flawed adults in this movie. It made the script slightly better than an average popcorn flick.
The Sulu is gay scene was so simple and what it needed to be. I heard a scoff from a woman behind me about it, but really, it's 2016. I also disagree with George Takei when he thinks it should have been a new character and not a standing one. You are emotionally invested in these characters and it allows you to accept his sexuality naturally instead of forcing a character in and having it being called "political correctness" in anti-LGBT circles.
The destruction of the Enterprise. I am not marveling about special effects here. I really didn't like how this ship looking from the brewery engine room to the giant middle of the ship with the long crosswalk or the stark white walls. I am hoping the new Enterprise will have a better internal design, though I am not hopefully with how NCC-1701-A was plastered in size 100 font on the belly of the saucer at the end.
Idris Elba acted the hell out of a cardboard villain. His scenes as Edison going mad in the log and during the fight with Kirk showed what he could've done with better writing for his character.
Middle Ground
I didn't hate Jaylah, but I was disappointed to see her shuttled off to Starfleet Academy. She worked for me as a rogue, someone who wanted to find her place in the universe. She still could've been brought back, but it didn't shoehorn her into wearing a Starfleet uniform.
Negatives
In the posts I did read, there was a lot of questioning of Krall's motives and I'm right there too. I would have preferred in the final log entry had said something to the effect of their distress calls not being answered, being abandoned, more of a descent into madness instead of "I'm a soldier and the Federation is weak." These people could have been pushed to their boundaries, perhaps watching their friends and colleagues die one by one, and snapped and possibly made to be more sympathetic villains. His killing of the crew members to sustain himself was written to be evil, when a line or two could have shown some pain in having to do it, a man tortured by demons.
Am I the only one who didn't get that Manas and the Lydia Wilson character were part of the Franklin crew? I don't know if I missed it, but it just seems sort of glossed over. I assumed they were some aliens that had crashed that he had co-opted into being part of his plans.
I wasn't a big fan of how this movie was shot. I can't stand the frenetic, frenzied movements and in some places, it was dark for no reason and made it more difficult to see. I find myself praying for a locked off camera shot once in a while. I found that 3D did not really add to the movie for me like it did in "The Martian." Some of the special effects, mainly Jaylah's "goo" was so horrible it was funny and left me thinking: "This was the best they could think of?" This was better than JJ's lensflares however.
I know the Federation is made of many alien species, but some of the alien crew were some of the worst CGI and makeup we've had. It was almost like: we're a science fiction show and we need to make the aliens look as alien as possible. One great example was the Ensign hiding the piece in the back of her head. She couldn't have had it on her person or known what shuttle it was in, but instead, it was let's be super alien and have her head open up and it looked silly. Some others that also spring to mind are the fish alien in the final scene and the one with a big head and what looked like a blue tattoo in the middle.
They really need to cut that Keenser creature. I don't get his redeeming qualities and at the end, it looked like they paired him with a smaller creature as a sidekick. Hell, Vin Diesel made the same three words more entertaining and sympathetic in one movie than this character has in three.
I just realized, my first real entry, and thus my gateway drug, to my love of Trek involved our heroes crossing the galaxy far faster than they could have with a malfunctioning ship, facing an enemy that Spock conveniently hadn't mentioned to his closest friends in 30 years, during a quest in a science-based universe to find God. If that ain't inconsistency with everything else we've seen before, I don't know what is. It still holds a special place in my heart, though.
Edison explained in his log who they were, though that was towards the end of the movie (the same time we find out that Edison and Krall are one and the same). He specifically mentioned that of the entire crew, only 3 survived, and since our heroes faced only 3 named villains and Edison/Krall revealed his identity, the connection became clearer.
I at least like the idea of Krall/Edison losing his identity in the frontier and choosing a new name. I didn't like Manas at all and thought he was a terrible character
I agree that Manas and Lydia Wilson's character were unclear. It wasn't until my second viewing that it really cemented with me that they were the other two survivors. Though it was still a rather weak connection. And neither of them or Krall were given enough development to make them good enemies.
I would love to see the secret perfect cut of the Trek films which has established such a high standard for the Kelvin ones to be compared to. It sure as hell isn't any of the versions I've seen.
It extends to those involved in them too. Pine's comment about the difficulty of producing a cerebral film prompted plenty of criticism, but it fit perfectly with this quote from Nimoy about TMP: "It seemed to me that somebody was watching 2001 a lot, and getting into a cerebral, futuristic trip rather than an adventure romp, which is what Star Trek is built on."
I'd also love to see the response if Abrams ever said anything like Meyer did about TOS - ie that it was about Kirk engaging in gunboat diplomacy on behalf of the always-right pseudo-American Federation, at the expense of the "lesser breeds".
He was just Krall's thug... I wasn't looking for very much from him.
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