HUGE Mr Sulu Spoiler

[Cake]

Now that I have seen the movie...

Spoiler

Like expected, Sulu being gay and having a family is really a very minor thing in the movie. If I remember right, they don't even specifically say that the guy is his husband and the girl is his daughter. It is implied though, but not very outright. Homophobes can pretend if they have to, that Sulu simply met his brother and niece.

 

[borgboy]

Chekov wasn't intellectually stupid he was just an intelligent idiot, mathematically smart, capable of retaining facts, but a ludicrously poor judge of character. Making him a bridge tactical officer seemed OK to me; making him head of security seemed like a terrible idea (did he ever win a fight in TOS?), an opinion that was vindicated by every terrible security decision he made in STII, STIII, STIV, STV, and STVI.

NuChekov became a navigation expert, a transporter expert, an engineer, and then a chief engineer (all within a year of graduation) largely to give the character something to do but just because they both have a Russian accent and the same name does not make them the same character. They are absolutely, I repeat ABSOLUTELY, different characters.

I'd go as far as to say that Scotty, Uhura, and Spock are almost entirely different too. To his very great credit Pine manages to give you glimpses of Shatner's Kirk mixed in with the bad boy but it's only really McCoy and Sulu that bear a reasonable resemblance to the originals. Even if you subscribe to the notion that Sulu Prime was entirely straight, Cho's Sulu still has more in common with Takei's character than Yelchin's Chekov has with Koenig's Chekov.

That's not to say the new versions are not fun or likeable (although Pegg's Scotty is awful IMO). They are just different characters.

I agree, the cast mostly does feel like very different characters.
Only McCoy is really really the same. Spock is the same character but the relationship with Uhura, the loss of Amanda and Vulcan, the emotional reconciliation with Sarek have all given new Spock vastly different situations to play off of that result in the character having a very different life.
Sulu's husband is a relatively minor change compared to all the ways Spock's life has been changed.

 

[Pauln6]

I agree, the cast mostly does feel like very different characters.
Only McCoy is really really the same. Spock is the same character but the relationship with Uhura, the loss of Amanda and Vulcan, the emotional reconciliation with Sarek have all given new Spock vastly different situations to play off of that result in the character having a very different life.
Sulu's husband is a relatively minor change compared to all the ways Spock's life has been changed.

Spock's traumas have changed him but he was on a different path even before them - being a full commander and first officer on the Enterprise 5+ years ahead of schedule (Spock Prime really had no desire to command in the way that Quinto's Spock does) and an influential trainer at the Academy. You could also argue that Uhura's relationship with Spock, all that late night mind melding, has led to her losing her sense of mischief and becoming a more serious character I suppose.

EDIT: I really am at a loss of explain NuScotty's deal unless the science from the scans of the Narada led him down very different research paths as a young man whereby he took hard drugs instead of just too much alcohol?

 

[donners22]

Having seen it, I can't believe such a fuss has been made. It's brief, fairly subtle and well done.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No, I think they should keep the characters as they were out of respect to the original cast and crew who worked their asses off to make them and create them, and keep them alive, and basically letting these new actors and crew earn millions and millions of money while the originals had to slave at conventions for a decade for s*it money.

That's one of the stupidest reasons you've come up with yet. It's fiction the characters should be allowed to evolve and change free of the original actors.
What does the actors pay have to do with anything? So what if the only gigs they could get were conventions? Not seeing the connection.

The whole Adding diversity(this magic word) argument is silly for me. They could have introduced a new character if the only reason for someones sexuality was diversity and not adding to the character/story.

Gee, I dunno. Maybe because diversity has been a selling point for Star Trek/ Gene's vision or 50 years? Yeah, that's silly.

o Will, your character Kirk was awesome, I watched you play him for 40 odd years, a real inspiration for us. So anyway in this new movie we decided that Kirk is a girl, yeah he was a girl all along, can you believe that? Anyway so she and Spock were secret lovers all along!

Who's Will? Your Trek Fu grows weaker with every post. Why does this "Willl" guy care about how Kirk is being portrayed in a movie he's not in?

 

[Sector 7]

Much ado about nothing. I would have liked more, but after waiting since 1974 to see someone like me in Star Trek, I am happy about it. Hopefully, we will see a little more in the next film.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

That's not really true though. People complain about everything from Khan's major changes all the way down to Kirk's haircut. People complain about the ship design, the lens flares, the fabric of the uniforms, the bike jump in the trailer. This is just the latest thing and also the thread topic.

I know all that, but it's seemed to me from the very beginning that the people complaining about this particular decision are not the same people who complain about all those other things. They've certainly been given plenty of opportunity to set that record straight in this thread, and the only thing that's come so far has been ridiculous justifications about why the other changes aren't that bad.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Much ado about nothing. I would have liked more, but after waiting since 1974 to see someone like me in Star Trek, I am happy about it. Hopefully, we will see a little more in the next film.

Sometimes it's just not worth the wait.

I was told earlier in this thread that I am perfectly represented by Reginald Barclay.

 

[Pauln6]

Sometimes it's just not worth the wait.

I was told earlier in this thread that I am perfectly represented by Reginald Barclay.

You're a holosexual? I don't want to watch you play Pokemon Go.

Or do I?

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's only a matter of time until Nintendo releases a game controller which resembles a small sock.

 

[mlk]

I know all that, but it's seemed to me from the very beginning that the people complaining about this particular decision are not the same people who complain about all those other things. They've certainly been given plenty of opportunity to set that record straight in this thread, and the only thing that's come so far has been ridiculous justifications about why the other changes aren't that bad.

Well I promise, if you start a thread why Spock and Uhura has a relationship I'll complain there as well. But so far this thread is full of people trying to slap a "homophobe" sticker on everyone who doesn't like it. Just look at yourself: "they are not the same people." no you're right, we're the mole people sprung up form the depth of earth when we heard about the evil gays in Star Trek.

Anyway, As I've said before (Is that a warning for repeating?) I don't mind gays, f*ck it, make Star Trek 5 a long movie about a Pride parade on Enterprise.What I hate are BAD retcons done in some weird appeasement for "diversity" and other PC bullcrap. This is, a BAD retcon and I don't like a BAD retcon. Checkov or Scotty gay would have been better and I would probably not have complained as much.

 

[Pauln6]

This is, a BAD retcon and I don't like a BAD retcon. Checkov or Scotty gay would have been better and I would probably not have complained as much.

I think for me it is the lack of logic in this kind of argument that makes it ring hollow, picking for example, two characters who were shown on screen to have girlfriends as a better option than a man never shown on screen to have one. Sulu liked women . He may have also like men. NuSulu likes men. He may also like women. Where is the retcon?

The nuttiest thing about the argument is that it's fine for Sulu to be an evil murderer in the mirror universe but putting him in a relationship with a man in the Kelvin universe is a step too far? Your argument, while genuine and not overtly homophobic, may be displaying some subconscious bias.

However, if you also hate mirror Sulu as a bad retcon, then your narrative is at least consistent and you can rest easy that sexual hang ups play no part in your reasoning. B-)

 

[mlk]

The nuttiest thing about the argument is that it's fine for Sulu to be an evil murderer in the mirror universe but putting him in a relationship with a man in the Kelvin universe is a step too far? Your argument, while genuine and not overtly homophobic, may be displaying some subconscious bias.

However, if you also hate mirror Sulu as a bad retcon, then your narrative is at least consistent and you can rest easy that sexual hang ups play no part in your reasoning. B-)

Well for me and many others, we don't see this as another universe, this is he same universe but back in time. I have no qualms about mirror universe be whatever they wan't and why should I. But *this* is not a mirror universe, this is the same universe as in ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY.

 

[Myko]

Well that's simply factually incorrect.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Well I promise, if you start a thread why Spock and Uhura has a relationship I'll complain there as well. But so far this thread is full of people trying to slap a "homophobe" sticker on everyone who doesn't like it. Just look at yourself: "they are not the same people." no you're right, we're the mole people sprung up form the depth of earth when we heard about the evil gays in Star Trek.

Anyway, As I've said before (Is that a warning for repeating?) I don't mind gays, f*ck it, make Star Trek 5 a long movie about a Pride parade on Enterprise.What I hate are BAD retcons done in some weird appeasement for "diversity" and other PC bullcrap. This is, a BAD retcon and I don't like a BAD retcon. Checkov or Scotty gay would have been better and I would probably not have complained as much.

The reason I feel like it's not the same people complaining is because all the complainers in this thread seem to be generally fans of these new movies.

Anyone who is truly that bothered by major changes in characters should logically be so bothered by these movies that they wouldn't be fans of them in the first place. As already mentioned, it's not even remotely just Spock and Uhura's relationship. It's basically almost every single character, several of them being so different that they're pretty much 'X in name only'.

 

[mlk]

Well don't worry then, I'm not a fan of these movies at all. I would much rather have wanted continuation after Nemesis. But lacking any other Star Trek I do watch it and hope they don't mess up too much.

*Waiting for the announcement that Geordi was GAY ALL ALONG!"

 

[Trekkin]

Well don't worry then, I'm not a fan of these movies at all. I would much rather have wanted continuation after Nemesis.

We have a thread for that.

But lacking any other Star Trek I do watch it and hope they don't mess up too much.

Giving a second-string character a bigger role, and revealing that they're in a relationship with a member of the same sex, is not 'messing up'.

Spoiler: Spoiler

I've seen the damn movie. That's literally all that happens.

*Waiting for the announcement that Geordi was GAY ALL ALONG!"

Hands up anyone who'd honestly give a fuck?

The real surprise is that they'd bother to even bring Geordi back.

 

[BillJ]

Hands up anyone who'd honestly give a fuck?

I wouldn't care. Though I always thought Geordi was robosexual.

The real surprise is that they'd bother to even bring Geordi back.

Winner!

 

[{ Emilia }]

I think the correct term for Geordi's sexuality is "creepy".

 

[Kemaiku]

He's still only a 4 on the scale of "1" to "Riker".

Barcley gets an 8.