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Spoilers Captain America: Civil War - Grading & Discussion

Grade the movie...


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It's been awhile since I saw it but IIRC this was part of Tony's tongue in cheek reply to a Senate Committee about why he wasn't, in part, going to relinquish the suit. He needed it to survive with the chest implant.
Sort of. Really speaking it was that the suit needed him, since at that point the reactor was still embedded in his chest, hence the prostitution joke. Mostly though he was just giving them the runaround.

One of the many flaws of the movie is they they never properly explained how Rhodey was able to use the MkII since logically it would have been an empty shell sans reactor. I suspect there's a scene on the cutting room floor since there's an artefact of it in the scene with Fury, which implies that Stark was going to give that suit to Rhodey anyway since he was convinced he was dying. But it's not really elaborated on.
 
All his suits after that have their own internal power source (without them addressing it) anyway, so it's not that big of a deal. Just pretend he used the MkII to test out the new Arc and then left it in there. :)
 
TONY: The suit and I are one. To turn over the Iron Man suit would be to turn over myself, which is tantamount to indentured servitude or prostitution, depending on what state you're in. You can't have it.
STERN: Look, I'm no expert...
TONY: In prostitution? Of course not, you're a senator. Come on!
 
Let me get this straight . . . it was okay for Marvel to close the HYDRA arc with the bad and lazy writing found in "AGENTS OF SHIELD", because the impatient fanboys wanted the company to quickly move on to satisfy their desire for instant gratification, instead of allowing the arc to end on a well written note in a Captain America film. No wonder culture is going down the drain.

Actually, the films and TV shows do not coordinate with each other. The films ignore the shows altogether. For example, there was a sub-plot in season 2 of AoS in which Coulson is getting the helicarrier ready for its appearance in Age of Ultron. But Joss Whedon killed Coulson so as far as he is concerned the helicarrier in Ultron is just a gift from "some old friends" even though it means ignoring the TV show Whedon is an executive producer on.

The Netflix shows are even worse. They for some reason aren't allowed to make direct references so instead we get characters talking about the green guy or the guy in the iron suit. There's a million skyline shots of NYC and no Stark/Avengers tower in the background. They pack in as many subtle references as they can (like Roxxon which has been around since the first Iron Man IIRC) but the idea that it's all connected is still bound up in legal claptrap none of us really care about. As a result we end up with a lumpy continuity in which the shows take place in the movie universe (in as much as they are allowed to, see above) but the movies pretend the shows don't exist. That helicarrier in Age of Ultron should have been staffed by Coulson and his crew. Daredevil and Jessica Jones should be able to see the Avengers tower as they're prowling rooftops in Hell's Kitchen. Et cetera. But they don't coordinate and those of us who are watching closely might not know exactly what is wrong with the picture except that there is something missing. I wish the movies and TV shows would acknowledge each other more formally and in a more meaningful manner. To paraphrase a poster here no one will be confused by references to Marvel products in their Marvel products. But the TV and movie divisions have split and are further apart now than they have ever been. As much as I'd love to see Black Widow and Jessica Jones snarking at each other while waiting for Fitz and Simmons to repair some critical piece of gear they need I'd be very surprised if it ever happens.

Also don't forget what HYDRA is all about. Never believe anyone who says they've defeated the last remaining head of HYDRA.
 
Actually, the films and TV shows do not coordinate with each other. The films ignore the shows altogether. For example, there was a sub-plot in season 2 of AoS in which Coulson is getting the helicarrier ready for its appearance in Age of Ultron. But Joss Whedon killed Coulson so as far as he is concerned the helicarrier in Ultron is just a gift from "some old friends" even though it means ignoring the TV show Whedon is an executive producer on.

The Netflix shows are even worse. They for some reason aren't allowed to make direct references so instead we get characters talking about the green guy or the guy in the iron suit. There's a million skyline shots of NYC and no Stark/Avengers tower in the background. They pack in as many subtle references as they can (like Roxxon which has been around since the first Iron Man IIRC) but the idea that it's all connected is still bound up in legal claptrap none of us really care about. As a result we end up with a lumpy continuity in which the shows take place in the movie universe (in as much as they are allowed to, see above) but the movies pretend the shows don't exist. That helicarrier in Age of Ultron should have been staffed by Coulson and his crew. Daredevil and Jessica Jones should be able to see the Avengers tower as they're prowling rooftops in Hell's Kitchen. Et cetera. But they don't coordinate and those of us who are watching closely might not know exactly what is wrong with the picture except that there is something missing. I wish the movies and TV shows would acknowledge each other more formally and in a more meaningful manner. To paraphrase a poster here no one will be confused by references to Marvel products in their Marvel products. But the TV and movie divisions have split and are further apart now than they have ever been. As much as I'd love to see Black Widow and Jessica Jones snarking at each other while waiting for Fitz and Simmons to repair some critical piece of gear they need I'd be very surprised if it ever happens.

Also don't forget what HYDRA is all about. Never believe anyone who says they've defeated the last remaining head of HYDRA.

As far as I've ever seen there is no legal claptrap involved at all. This is, after all, one big company, and all these different projects even report to many of the same people. The netflix shows simply made a concious, creative choice not to entwine themselves too much with the rest, so that they could stand on their own merit (and maintain a 'grittier' atmosphere). And I'm pretty sure the lack of avengers tower has more to do with the cost of inserting it into every shot, especially when 90% of the audience will never notice it's absence.

Meanwhile, Joss's comments on Coulson have absolutely nothing to do with the movies 'ignoring' the show's existence. It simply means that the movies don't have any benefit for acknowledging Coulson's resurrection, because his character arc in the movies is over and they don't have any other stories for him. They've moved on to other characters, and bringing him back simply isn't possible because even a cameo would require them to explain how he's alive again, which would take way too much time away from the actual stories they're trying to tell.
 
Exactly, you can't just have Coulson on that carrier in AoS without having some kind of back story as to why this person is still alive. There are many people out there who only follow AoS or only follow the movies, and you can't alienate that audience for the sake of providing easter eggs to the fanboys.

In fact, Marvel and DC comics could learn a lot about the approach to continuity that Marvel studios is taking.
 
Exactly, you can't just have Coulson on that carrier in AoS without having some kind of back story as to why this person is still alive. There are many people out there who only follow AoS or only follow the movies, and you can't alienate that audience for the sake of providing easter eggs to the fanboys.

In fact, Marvel and DC comics could learn a lot about the approach to continuity that Marvel studios is taking.
I will have to rewatch the second season but If memory serves none of Director Coulson's primary team knew of his side project with Maria Hill, maybe Agent May did. I guess a redshirt from SHIELD, could have been in the background along with the "Captain's orders" guy but not Coulson,Daisy FritzSimmons or Mac as they didn't know about the repair project.
 
I've been thinking it over, something that's really bothered me was how the Special Police or whatever they were sent to assassinate Bucky. I think that pretty much makes the Accords useless right there, even though oversight and legality that comes with it are not worthless. You could say Bucky is far too dangerous and that's why they had to shoot on sight, but what about the Black Panther? What if he wasn't as bulletproof as he is and is more like as bulletproof as Quicksilver? Is it ok for the helicopter to shoot the hell out of the new King of Wakanda?
 
I will have to rewatch the second season but If memory serves none of Director Coulson's primary team knew of his side project with Maria Hill, maybe Agent May did. I guess a redshirt from SHIELD, could have been in the background along with the "Captain's orders" guy but not Coulson,Daisy FritzSimmons or Mac as they didn't know about the repair project.

IIRC, he delegated the whole project to recurring character Agent Koenig (Patton Oswalt). So it is kind of unfortunate that Oswalt, at least, didn't get a background cameo. Then again, most of his appearances show him holding the fort in random hidden locations, so maybe he just doesn't do field work.

I think Agent May found out about the existence of a secret project sometime before Sokovia happened and there was a whole 'Coulson is keeping secrets, is he trustworthy?' storyline, but I don't recall her ever finding out what the project actually was until after everything was over.
 
Captain America: Civil War became the first film of 2016 to cross $400m US domestic.

How long it can retain the leading film of summer '16 will be tested as Finding Dory opened strong and has good word of mouth though.
 
You could say Bucky is far too dangerous and that's why they had to shoot on sight, but what about the Black Panther? What if he wasn't as bulletproof as he is and is more like as bulletproof as Quicksilver? Is it ok for the helicopter to shoot the hell out of the new King of Wakanda?
It amounts to a declaration of war against a rinky-dink little country. The U.S. government would only ever do that if they could claim they were keeping the terrorists at bay. But the U.S. doesn't do that sort of thing, right?
 
But did they KNOW the guy in the cat suit was the New King of Wakanda? For all any outside observer knew, he could have been anybody.
 
And we're so proud of you for that.

Thank you.


The films ignore the shows altogether. For example, there was a sub-plot in season 2 of AoS in which Coulson is getting the helicarrier ready for its appearance in Age of Ultron. But Joss Whedon killed Coulson so as far as he is concerned the helicarrier in Ultron is just a gift from "some old friends" even though it means ignoring the TV show Whedon is an executive producer on.


Whedon, his brother Jed and Maurissa Tancharoen were the ones who also resurrected Coulson.
 
Actually, the films and TV shows do not coordinate with each other. The films ignore the shows altogether. For example, there was a sub-plot in season 2 of AoS in which Coulson is getting the helicarrier ready for its appearance in Age of Ultron. But Joss Whedon killed Coulson so as far as he is concerned the helicarrier in Ultron is just a gift from "some old friends" even though it means ignoring the TV show Whedon is an executive producer on.
Some of us were just having a lengthy conversation on this subject in the AoS Season 3 thread recently. The film was in production before season 2 of the show, and the sub-plot you mention was devised to tie in with the film. However, the film did subtly and obliquely acknowledge the show by having Fury mention that he's "not the Director of anybody anymore," having appointed Coulson to that position at the conclusion of Season 1.

The Netflix shows are even worse. They for some reason aren't allowed to make direct references so instead we get characters talking about the green guy or the guy in the iron suit. There's a million skyline shots of NYC and no Stark/Avengers tower in the background. They pack in as many subtle references as they can (like Roxxon which has been around since the first Iron Man IIRC) but the idea that it's all connected is still bound up in legal claptrap none of us really care about. As a result we end up with a lumpy continuity in which the shows take place in the movie universe (in as much as they are allowed to, see above) but the movies pretend the shows don't exist.
I am not aware of any prohibition on making direct references in the Netflix shows. I think they choose to do that because it seems more natural and conversational than having people always refer to "the Hulk" or "Iron Man" or "Thor" by those names. They have directly mentioned the events of the Battle of NY several times, and it is actually an integral part of the basic premise of Hell's Kitchen being less cushy and gentrified than it actually is today in real life. The lack of the tower is simply due to budgetary reasons, and is really nothing compared to the relatively common practice in TV and films of often having entirely different cities stand in for the locations in which they are intended to be set. I agree that it would be nice if the tower were there, sure, but it's nevertheless a minor point that is only a big deal to people who obsessively strive to maintain an "in-universe" perspective on that level of detail instead of remembering it's all just fictional entertainment.

That helicarrier in Age of Ultron should have been staffed by Coulson and his crew. Daredevil and Jessica Jones should be able to see the Avengers tower as they're prowling rooftops in Hell's Kitchen. Et cetera. But they don't coordinate and those of us who are watching closely might not know exactly what is wrong with the picture except that there is something missing. I wish the movies and TV shows would acknowledge each other more formally and in a more meaningful manner. To paraphrase a poster here no one will be confused by references to Marvel products in their Marvel products. But the TV and movie divisions have split and are further apart now than they have ever been.
If the hellicarrier had been staffed by Coulon & Co. this would have actually contradicted the TV show's continuity, because Coulson there decided to maintain the illusion of his death and work behind the scenes in the shadows. He didn't want the Avengers or even his girlfriend to know. But the real issue is that it would absolutely have confused the general moviegoing public that doesn't watch or care about the shows. The reality is that the franchise is driven overall by the films and the shows are merely ancillary spin-offs, and that's why the shows promote and mention the movies and not vice versa. Another practical facet to this arrangement is that films are in development and production for years, whereas TV shows are made on a much shorter timescale. Multiple seasons of multiple shows might come out in the time one movie is being written and filmed. So even if it made any sense dramatically or financially (which it doesn't) it would be logistically impossible for the films to play catch-up to the shows instead of the other way around. The two divisions do coordinate to the extent that the film division makes its plans for the movies known to the TV division so that they can write around them in the meantime (as AoS did with the hellicarrier sub-plot).
 
I actually really like the way that AoS has dealt with the movies for the last three years. Other than the big Hydra reveal in Season 1, the events of the movies are acknowledged but you don't need to go out and watch a movie just to finish watching the season of the television show. Now I did watch Winter Soldier before the final episodes of AoS but it wouldn't have changed the movie for me if I had watched the show first. The Hydra surprise just would have been in AoS rather than Winter Soldier.
 
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