Spoilers DC's Legends of Tomorrow - Season 1
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
So, no one mentioned yet how Rip pulled a Marty McFly with that stunt of falling of the roof top only to rise again on the hull of his time machine in the exact same pose? XD
And he was played by the worst actor I've ever seen outside of Mystery Science Theater 3000, so I have no interest in seeing him return unless they recast him.
With Supergirl coming to The CW, I suspect the Waverider's multiverse-navigation capability will be established before long. In contrast to all the people who are reflexively assuming they'll collapse the universes together for some reason, I think it's far more likely that they'll take this opportunity to multiply the universes even further, to take even fuller advantage of the story possibilities of parallel worlds than they did on The Flash this season. I mean, why waste that potential by eradicating the multiverse so soon after it's emerged as a story element? Everybody loves parallel-universe stories. "Mirror, Mirror" is one of the most popular and oft-emulated Star Trek episodes. Fringe didn't really come into its own until it started regularly crossing between universes. Sliders managed to run for 5 years even though it sucked for a large percentage of that time.
Rip explained to Sara that if she did go back and intervene, it would somehow lead to herself and Quentin being killed alongside Laurel. He didn't adequately explain why, though.
Really, nothing about this show makes sense. I just rewatched the finale so I could see the ending I missed last night (since On Demand doesn't let you fast-forward), and it drove home how nonsensical the climax was. Okay: If the Waverider could jump back through time and sequentially drop off team members at the three key points in history, why couldn't the whole team just kill Savage sequentially in the three different times? Rip said it had to be "simultaneous," but how can events in 1958, 1975, and 2021 be simultaneous by any definition?
And why did Rip even bother to fly the meteorite into the Sun? Just toss it into empty space once the ship's accelerated beyond Earth's escape velocity.
Just saw the episode and that was the first thing I wanted to mention
Overall, even though this show didn't make much sense plotwise even by extremely low time travel logic standards I found myself enjoying the mostly ridiculous stuff that has been happening, and I liked the characters and the quippy dialog so I'm optimistic for season two.
I was impressed that she made such a crap line work by delivering it so damn well.
"A time Master is never late"
So.. if Vandal died three times... does that mean he wasn't alive to kill Rip's family, or did some other bad guy in that time period kill Rip's family?
I'm hoping that the JSA reference winds up tying in with an anticipated development in The Flash that others have mentioned.
One idea that tickled my fancy is that maybe this JSA is a multiversal super-group, with members from various Earths, that some existing Berlantiverse characters could join...a way for Supergirl to regularly team up with the others, for one thing. But that would make the "of America" seem particularly awkward..."We're from different universes, but we're all Americans, dammit!"
We've also met an Earth-2 version of Atom-Smasher and his Earth-1 doppleganger...could be a third out there somewhere.
One idea that tickled my fancy is that maybe this JSA is a multiversal super-group, with members from various Earths, that some existing Berlantiverse characters could join...a way for Supergirl to regularly team up with the others, for one thing. But that would make the "of America" seem particularly awkward..."We're from different universes, but we're all Americans, dammit!"
We've also met an Earth-2 version of Atom-Smasher and his Earth-1 doppleganger...could be a third out there somewhere.
How does dilithium withstand antimatter? The idea someone came up with is that it's "present" exists at different points in time so in order to destroy it you have to hit it simultaneously at certain points in the past, present and future. The Vandal Savage thing reminded me of that. Still don't quite know how that works. Not the dilithium, the killing of Vandal Savage. Or does it work the same way?
Last edited:
Maybe in the sense that it's "simultaneous" from the perspective of the time travelers who are altering the timeline...? "Synchronize your watches!"
I don't see how it's any harder to understand (accept, really) than the climax of All Good Things, which I thought the overall problem was channeling. Between that and Barry's visit to the Speed Force I feel like the Arrowverse creatives are pretty familiar with Star Trek - which is fine by me!
^ ETA: Right, like that.
^ ETA: Right, like that.
That was presented as a joke in John M. Ford's comedy Star Trek novel How Much for Just the Planet?, although Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens took it seriously in several of their novels. (The official TNG Technical Manual explanation, however, is that a dilithium crystal in a powerful magnetic field channels the antiparticles through the gaps in its crystal lattice, like an atomic-scale magnetic bottle.)
It doesn't really work as an analogy for Savage, though. If the radiation made him mortal, then surely killing him in 1958 would've erased him in 1975 and 2021.
Ooh, wait, hold on. The Savages from '58 and '75 were the ones native to those time periods; we saw the 2166 Savage giving the vial of blood to his 1958 counterpart, and he must've done the same with his 1975 counterpart. But the one conducting the 2021 ceremony was apparently the time-traveling Savage from 2166, because he knew about Rip Hunter and his murdered family, and because he was holding Kendra hostage. So there should've been another Savage already present in 2021 and not involved in the ceremony. I guess it's a moot point, since he presumably would've been erased after his younger selves (?) were killed. And the whole mortality thing resulted from proximity to the meteorites.
Except there the three time zones were meant to be three alternate timelines, since events in the past had no effect on the present or future (and because elements of the past sequence contradicted prior canon anyway, like Tasha having a different haircut and meeting Picard in a different way, O'Brien being main bridge conn instead of battle bridge, and the stardate of Picard's assuming command being different). And the whole thing was just a Q test anyway, so I'm not convinced any of it was more than a simulation, and it didn't really need to make any logical sense (which it really, profoundly did not). This is supposed to be real and happening within a single timeline, so its nonsensicality is harder to swallow.
Especially if Earth 2 is really Earth 3, and the JSA Earth is the real Earth 2. Really getting to be fond of this idea. Kind of hoping that the world of the 1990s Flash is the origin of the JSA. (That show had a little bit of legacy in it, too, with the character of Nightshade active in 55.)
Those are just nitpicks though of setting and costuming and fine details. They're not supposed to be alternate timelines - the intent was clearly that the scenes on the past Enterprise were taking place during the same Farpoint mission, (and Picard's "present" and the "future" until it was altered were part of the same timeline), just altered by the Negative Space Wedgie's appearance. Mistakes like Tasha's haircut and meeting of Picard, or O'Brien being at one console rather than another, let alone the stardate discrepancy are just trifles. If the whole thing was a simulation that would completely undercut the tension and the stakes.
The point is, it's basically the same narrative conceit to resolve Legends as "All Good Things..." No, it doesn't make a lot of logical sense, but it's a perfectly good story.
No, they were separate, because the changes that happened in the past did not alter the present timeline or the future timeline, as I said. This was explicitly stated by Data: "It would appear there is a discontinuity between the time periods you described. Events in one time period would seem to have no effect on the other two." So, yes, they were unconnected timestreams. Yes, obviously you're right that the inconsistencies were just production errors or slight retcons, but since it's already explicit that the timestreams have no causal effect on one another, that provides a handy explanation for those inconsistencies, namely that it was a slightly different timeline. It's extrapolating from the evidence, of course, but it fits, and it makes sense of the inconsistencies rather than just ignoring them.
And if it were real, it would make no damn sense and be essentially impossible. It's full of logic holes and absurdities. How can "the same ship" probing the anomaly in three times cause the rift when only two of them are the Enterprise and the third is the Pasteur? If the anomaly propagates backward in time, how come they don't see it before they create it? It doesn't make any sense as reality, so it works far better if it's just a game. (Which was Alan Dean Foster's solution to the utter idiocy of "The Counter-Clock Incident" when he novelized it in Star Trek Log Seven.)
There are many things I would call "All Good Things...," but "a perfectly good story" is not one of them. Nor would I apply it here. This whole series has been such a conceptual mess that it makes AGT seem plausible by comparison. Of all the Berlanti showrunners at this point, Phil Klemmer is definitely the weakest. (I wasn't a fan of his The Tomorrow People either.)
I think it's still entirely possible for them to show up as JSA members. They flew off to find their own path, and there's nothing really to say that their path won't lead them to eventually join the JSA and encounter Rip and the team again at some point.
Presumably because that's exactly what Darhk said he would do.
On a sidenote, they spoke correct German, which one has to be thankful for, even though it was audible the actors really didn't really know German and learned their lines phonetically.
I am already superexcited for it!
I amhoping for that too (the earth 2/3 thing)... And the 1990's Flash thing..mmm.. not so sure about. But we'll see
Holy Exaggeration, Batman! That is not what some of us are saying. We are not expecting a full-on Crisis that merges everything - just some kind of hand-wave mini-Crisis that merges just 2 universes -- Earth-1 and Earth-SG.
It's the same producers and same Vibe (pun intended), especially of Flash & Supergirl. They fit just fine...and not a whole lot to re-arrange... just have Flash & Supergirl remembering the previous universes & their meeting...but no need to constantly talk about it
We're not asking for constant "intrusions" -- I mean, it doesn't mess up Chicago Fire, Police and Med, right?
We've already had the Earth 2 arc....I highly doubt they'll do more than some one-off episodes in the near future for parallel universes.
We'll see what December's megaevent does. I wonder if they might have Per Degaton go back to his multiverse villainy role from the comics? (And again, maybe an excuse to merge in Earth-SG)
I don't necessarily think that they need to merge the Earths, but if they did, it would be easy enough to handwave away old continuity that had metahumans as a new thing on Earth-1...that's what retcons do...rewrite old continuity. Wouldn't necessarily change any Arrowverse events...just invalidate some references/exposition in old episodes.