DC Comics - Ongoing Discussion - SPOILERS

[Mudd]

They fixed Superman's collar, thank God.

boots and wrists next.

Then let the poor boy wear some jockeys over his trousers like a normal superhero please.

You mean like Flash, Green Lantern and Batman?

Put liitle stars on his Speedo and at least he'll be in step with Wonder Woman.

They ought to consider making his belt more like Cavill's, given that the other adjustments bring his outfit more into line with the movies.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Hawks stand alone?

I googled to see if Batman vs Superman is bombing because it happens to be objectively awful... Google can neither confirm nor deny.

If the movie fails, Superman will reboot, and maybe the new as yet unmade franchise will have Kal in Super trunks.

 

[Mudd]

The further we get from Flash Point the less differences I see between the two men.

Exactly so.

One thing the new movie's massive success will do is reinforce the more brooding, difficult tonal shift of the modern Superman character. The big blue boy scout is history.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Exactly so.

One thing the new movie's massive success will do is reinforce the more brooding, difficult tonal shift of the modern Superman character. The big blue boy scout is history.

Judging by the bright colors they used for all that art previewed at WonderCon, I doubt it. Even Jim Lee gave Superman a smirk, and that art piece is pretty much the face of the whole "Rebirth" programm.

Besides, "Rebirth" is a reaction on the criticisms of long-time fans in the past few years, and one of the most, if not the most, biggest criticism has been that the DC Universe overall, and Superman in particular, is too dark and pessimistic since the reboot.

 

[Mudd]

No, it's the every-couple-of-years reset necessary to bump up the company's bottom line for a few quarters. They'll present it to the existing customer base in whatever way they think mollifies you this time.

 

[theenglish]

No, it's the every-couple-of-years reset necessary to bump up the company's bottom line for a few quarters. They'll present it to the existing customer base in whatever way they think mollifies you this time.

Here's a nice summary from June 2011:

http://comicsalliance.com/dc-comics-reboot-history/

 

[Mudd]

Yep, and now Marvel has thrown in the towel and gotten into the act. Welcome to Disney World.

The two "major" comics publishing operations are currently itty-bitty arms of huge publicly-trading entertainment corporations. The major financial value of superhero IP is in other media now. The management of these corporations rise and fall on quarterly results. Fill in the blanks.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

No, it's the every-couple-of-years reset necessary to bump up the company's bottom line for a few quarters. They'll present it to the existing customer base in whatever way they think mollifies you this time.

In the grande scheme, sure "Rebirth" is one campaigne in a long line of campaignes to see a quick buck. But in itself, "Rebirth" is a reaction to criticism. They could have gone with any direction, they chose this one.

Whether it lasts, or even delivers on its promises, that's certainly far from a sure thing. And as someone who's been burned by DC a lot, I'll be among the first to drop a book the second it becomes shitty. But I'm gonna give it a shot. Sure, they're only doing it to get my money, but if they deliver, I gladly give it. When they don't deliver, I won't.

 

[Mudd]

They'll get someone else's, then.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Well, yeah, I suppose. So?!

 

[Hartzilla2007]

But in itself, "Rebirth" is a reaction to criticism. They could have gone with any direction, they chose this one.

Sigh. I can't help but think that if people would actually grasp the concept that as the primary purpose of a corporation is to make money they don't really care about people's issues with how they do it since they still make money, the world would be a slightly better place.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Sigh. I can't help but think that if people would actually grasp the concept that as the primary purpose of a corporation is to make money they don't really care about people's issues with how they do it since they still make money, the world would be a slightly better place.

Again, I do understand their motive. I do understand they want our money. But there's been criticism for a long time from longtime fans. And they've been losing their longtime fans. You think I bought the last couple of years worth of Superman comics?! Hell, no. I've dropped the New 52 Wonder Woman after the second issue, I dropped both Superman, Justice League and Green Arrow in the first year, I've only been sticking with Action Comics for the Morrison run and that one issue Andy Diggle got to write before they drove him away, too. I've been back for Convergence, which I don't regret, I've read the Lois & Clark series, which I love, but otherwise, I wasn't interested. And I know for a fact that there are a lot of longtime fans who acted similar and just stayed away from comics they didn't like. And, apparently, they've noticed, so instead of doing another DCYou approach, or getting rid of Clark Kent and using Gene Yang's New Superman as their flagship character, they are doing this. And the reason is, probably, that they notice the criticism of longtime fans. Hell, Geoff Johns, in the original announcement video, even basically said as much, even saying the burden was on them to convince us.

So, they're trying to get us old fans back. So far, their approach looks mostly promising. Could it suck?! Sure, and if it does, I'm dropping those books again. I'm taking Johns at his word and put the burden on them to convince me to spend my money on their product.

That's all there is to it. I'm not naive. But if they offer something I like, and I buy and enjoy it as long as it lasts, then all is well.

I don't see where your or @Dennis 's problem is.

 

[shivkala]

It's possible that you both are right, you know? Yes, corporations only care about money, but sometimes that concern for profit means they will produce products that are geared towards pleasing fans (both old and current). Other times, that concern will mean seeking out new customers for their product. And it works in cycles: the late 80's/90's seemed to be about attracting new fans by creating new versions of classic characters (some of which stuck longer than others), the early 00's seemed to be about appealing to the older fans (bringing back many classic characters), the New52 seemed aimed at new readers, and this Rebirth seems geared to older fans.

So, yes, it is about the profit, but sometimes that means listening to people's issues. But the trend I've seen is that younger readers are not getting hooked on comics, so they keep having to make attempts to recruit new consumers, because eventually the old ones will stop collecting and there will be no one left to sell their product to.

 

[Mr Light]

I think the bigger question is who the hell can afford to buy a bunch of $3-4 comic books that only take 5 minutes to read? Surely today's teenagers can't afford these outrageous prices. Isn't their target demographic basically older fans with real jobs who have lots of disposable income? People who grew up in the 80s and 90s?

What is the weekly allowance of a kid nowadays, anyway? I think I got $10 a week in the 90s and I think I was getting pretty spoiled.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

And they've been losing their longtime fans.

Yeah, well thats what happens when you cater to an aging fanbase. They tend to start dying off eventually. See Star Trek fans for example.

But there's been criticism for a long time from longtime fans.

A decent amount of which came off demanding bad ideas.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

It's possible that you both are right, you know? Yes, corporations only care about money, but sometimes that concern for profit means they will produce products that are geared towards pleasing fans (both old and current). Other times, that concern will mean seeking out new customers for their product. And it works in cycles: the late 80's/90's seemed to be about attracting new fans by creating new versions of classic characters (some of which stuck longer than others), the early 00's seemed to be about appealing to the older fans (bringing back many classic characters), the New52 seemed aimed at new readers, and this Rebirth seems geared to older fans.

So, yes, it is about the profit, but sometimes that means listening to people's issues. But the trend I've seen is that younger readers are not getting hooked on comics, so they keep having to make attempts to recruit new consumers, because eventually the old ones will stop collecting and there will be no one left to sell their product to.

It's not just possible we're both right, we don't even contradict each other. That's what really baffles me, that @Dennis and @Hartzilla2007 make me out to be some naive idiot who can't see reality, when from the start I've always maintained that I know they're trying to get my money, and as soon as I don't like what I read, I'm not buying it anymore. If that's the first issue I'll read, it'll be the last issue I'll read, and they'd have to try that much harder the next time they want my money. I also don't know what they're trying to accomplish, convince me not to be tricked?! Don't get excited, it's just a sham?

I think the bigger question is who the hell can afford to buy a bunch of $3-4 comic books that only take 5 minutes to read? Surely today's teenagers can't afford these outrageous prices. Isn't their target demographic basically older fans with real jobs who have lots of disposable income? People who grew up in the 80s and 90s?

What is the weekly allowance of a kid nowadays, anyway? I think I got $10 a week in the 90s and I think I was getting pretty spoiled.

Fair points. I know my nephews aren't reading the current comics.

Maybe another contributing problem is availability. Superheroes used to be a rarity in media other than comic books, so if you were a fan of the genre, you basically could not get around comics. Nowadays, superheroes are all over the place, from movies, to TV, to video games. All waaayyy more exciting, and in the long run, less expensive than comics.

Yeah, well thats what happens when you cater to an aging fanbase. They tend to start dying off eventually. See Star Trek fans for example.



A decent amount of which came off demanding bad ideas.

Okay, at this point, to me this appears more like trolling than actually arguing a fair point. "Oh, some fans don't swallow anything, they actually have opinions about the product, they must be old and stupid".

 

[Hartzilla2007]

"Oh, some fans don't swallow anything, they actually have opinions about the product, they must be old and stupid".

Well seeing as the Superman fans usually care demand writers do something that goes against the way stories of heroes have gone since men in togas were coming up with them which is to have static gods be something other than a background character/plot device while the less powerful and likely more flawed character is the actually protagonist of the story, I question there ability to recognize good writing.

Not to mention when other complains are as petty as whining about which fictional stories are real and complaints about the fracking issue numbering, I also don't see the merit of listening to them.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Well seeing as the Superman fans usually care demand writers do something that goes against the way stories of heroes have gone since men in togas were coming up with them which is to have static gods be something other than a background character/plot device while the less powerful and likely more flawed character is the actually protagonist of the story, I question there ability to recognize good writing.

Could you rephrase that? Because I don't quite follow you.

Not to mention when other complains are as petty as whining about which fictional stories are real and complaints about the fracking issue numbering, I also don't see the merit of listening to them.

So, some complaints are stupid. Doesn't make the other, more dominant complaints any less legitimate. The DC Universe has gotten darker and pessimistic as a whole since the reboot, and even before that, not only in content, but even in the color palette used. That's not an opinion, that's fact. And if people don't like it, they are allowed to say as much.

By the way, editing your post after it's been answered, to replace the word 'idiotic' with 'bad ideas' is bad form.

 

[Mudd]

Hardcore fans of all kinds of things always go on about how corporations would do better to service them than to follow their own experience and pursue their own business interests. Fans keep being wrong about how it works and keep being disappointed.

Long-time fans = diminishing returns. Sales this month, and next month, and next month matter.

 

[Mudd]

<<Past time for another female Green Lantern, so good.>>
She's been around since 2013.

Not as a Green Lantern, sorry.

I see that Clark's costume is even darker than the previous iteration - more movie influence, I suppose - and now they've even eliminated the red boots. Grim, but looks good.